You guys and your guns...

[Seth]

Seth

Perhaps you could explain then, why it is that the USA has the highest homicide rate, by far, out of the advanced western nations?????

Because there are still massive urban populations living in areas where it is illegal for law abiding citizens to carry concealed firearms for self-protection, like New York, Chicago, Detroit and Los Angeles. This is where the criminal gangs exist and where they kill one another and predate on unarmed victims.

Where concealed carry is lawful, crime drops an average of 15 percent in the first year after enactment of the CCW law and continues to go down.

[Warren Dew]

The second is the myth that non-Americans have about the US. It's the myth that so many people are running around with guns taht we are sort of almost compelled to have our own to fend off the bad guys. This is just what I said, a myth. Most people don't have guns, and of those that do, the overwhelming vast majority of people aren't shooting them at people or threatening people with them. Gun crime is predominently in inner cities and among gangs.

The problem with this theory is that the inner cities have among the highest population densities in the U.S., and thus a substantial fraction of the population. Something that's true about the inner cities can't really be considered a myth.

[Blind groper]

Because there are still massive urban populations living in areas where it is illegal for law abiding citizens to carry concealed firearms for self-protection, like New York, Chicago, Detroit and Los Angeles. This is where the criminal gangs exist and where they kill one another and predate on unarmed victims.

Sorry, Seth.

That makes little sense. Throughout the advanced western world, in London, Toronto, Munich, Sydney etc., there are massive urban populations living in areas where it is illegal for law abiding citizens to carry concealed firearms for self-protection. Yet those areas have homicide rates way, way below that of the USA.

The only advanced western nation with homicide rates above 4 per 100,000 per year happens to be the only advanced western nation with lax gun laws. It is also true that what homicides do happen in other nations like Britain, Australia etc are not done with firearms in the main. It is only the USA where half of all homicides are committed with hand guns. It is only in the USA where hand guns are freely available. These facts are not unconnected.

[JimC]

I detect 3 strands in the American love affair with guns:

One strand is simply the enjoyment of guns themselves; firing them, hunting with them, learning about them, even cleaning them. I share this; when I was a young bloke, I owned a few rifles, and loved hunting rabbits on the farm. I can still remember they smell of gun oil myself... So, I get this strand, and at least a reasonable number of folk around the world would too...

The second is the whole self-defence thing; the whole "criminals better walk softly around me, coz I'm a righteous citizen packing serious heat". This strand is totally surreal to me, although I understand that, in a society with a vast number of hand-guns in circulation, the need for one of your own becomes a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy... I suspect that "alea jacta" applies here...

The third strand is the combined historical/libertarian thing. Citizen colonists fought off colonial oppression using their own weapons, and that legacy has become a truly sacred message to many. Socialism, the new world order and those pesky black helicopters can only be held at bay by that magic amulet, the gun, with the NRA as high priests...

Oh well, one out of three is better than nothing, I suppose...

The best one post-analysis on this issue I can recall reading.

Probably because I find myself in complete agreement with it ...

[Coito ergo sum]

The second is the myth that non-Americans have about the US. It's the myth that so many people are running around with guns taht we are sort of almost compelled to have our own to fend off the bad guys. This is just what I said, a myth. Most people don't have guns, and of those that do, the overwhelming vast majority of people aren't shooting them at people or threatening people with them. Gun crime is predominently in inner cities and among gangs.

The problem with this theory is that the inner cities have among the highest population densities in the U.S., and thus a substantial fraction of the population. Something that's true about the inner cities can't really be considered a myth.

The myth is that fairly loose gun laws correlate to higher gun crime and higher homicides in general.

Since the inner cities also have among the tightest gun laws, it doesn't stand to reason that tightening the gun laws is going to reduce the gun crime and homicides.

Why does Minnesota have very low homicide rates but Michigan has much higher?

[Wumbologist]

Why does Minnesota have very low homicide rates but Michigan has much higher?

Because people from Michigan are uncontrollable murder machines?

[Twoflower]

Why does Minnesota have very low homicide rates but Michigan has much higher?

Because people from Michigan are uncontrollable murder machines?

HEY!!! I'll kill you for saying that!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Wumbologist]

Why does Minnesota have very low homicide rates but Michigan has much higher?

Because people from Michigan are uncontrollable murder machines?

HEY!!! I'll kill you for saying that!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Uh, I meant... it's probably Detroit's fault?

[Twoflower]

Why does Minnesota have very low homicide rates but Michigan has much higher?

Because people from Michigan are uncontrollable murder machines?

HEY!!! I'll kill you for saying that!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Uh, I meant... it's probably Detroit's fault?

It's the fly-by shootings.

[Wumbologist]

It's the fly-by shootings.

[Twoflower]

It's the fly-by shootings.

[Svartalf]

Why does Minnesota have very low homicide rates but Michigan has much higher?

Because people from Michigan are uncontrollable murder machines?

HEY!!! I'll kill you for saying that!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No, no, NO !!!

You're supposed to gun him down, not go all Lizzie Borden on him.

[laklak]

I was going to respond with a reasoned, level-headed post, but I caught sight of my 1917 Steyr M95 coyly winking at me from the corner of the room. 'Scuse me while I masturbate over it while rubbing my body with pig's blood.

Maybe I should smack Mrs. Lak around first, just to set the mood.

[mistermack]

What a dumb argument.
It's obvious that areas with high gun-crime rates will be more likely to enact stricter gun laws, and areas with low will leave them more lax.
What the fuck is the mystery about that?

How dumb can you get, to look at it backwards, and claim the complete opposiite of what's bleedin obvious?

[Wumbologist]

What a dumb argument.
It's obvious that areas with high gun-crime rates will be more likely to enact stricter gun laws, and areas with low will leave them more lax.
What the fuck is the mystery about that?

How dumb can you get, to look at it backwards, and claim the complete opposiite of what's bleedin obvious?

And as we've seen, those strict gun laws are super duper effective.