JimC wrote:Cogwheel wrote:
But CES was only bringing it up in the first place as support for the idea that sexism is a solved problem in the west. Otherwise it's a red herring to the discussion.
I did not mean to imply I supported the idea that there are no issues of sexism yet to be resolved; if CES implied this, it was perhaps going one step too far...
However, I would assert that a high proportion of the feminist agenda has been achieved in the west, and hysterical complaints about the patriarchy are so last century...
I certainly will reiterate that I used the term "...being handed its hat..." as part of my description of where the problem is. Yes, I think it's pretty much solved -- being handed its hat -- meaning that the problems and gripes "to be solved" in this arena are relatively few and minor.
My point is that there is never going to be a society where women are immune from injustice and ill treatment. That's because there never has been and never will be a society where men are so immune, or children, or dogs, or people in general.
Much of what has cited as problems of sexism -- injustices in criminal prosecutions, etc. - are not necessarily sexism-related, or are only tangentially related. Men too suffer similar injustices. How many men served decades in prison for crimes they didn't commit? Is it because they're men that that happened? How many men got off light on serious crimes because the prosecutor didn't have the confidence in the case that he or she might have in other cases? Is that peculiar to rape cases? Of course not. It happens in all crimes.
Look at what most people raise as examples of the problems to be solved other than that: attitudes, views, etc. These certainly could be viewed as problems, but if we say that "for the most part" women and men are largely treated pretty much equally in the workplace, under the law, and in the schools, then are the fact that some folks are harboring what some other folks think are backwards or antiquated "views" and attitudes really to be considered a serious "problem" to be solved.
At some point, we all have to live with "attitudes" and "views" we don't like. Take the shooting in Aurora Colorado, and the several men who took bullets and died for their female dates. That is indicative of an "attitude" regarding men and women -- save the women and children, right? Women and children first? And, if some women have the view that they should be wives and mothers first, and that that's the best way to live -- is that a "problem" to be solved?
I don't think so. But, let's assume it is a "problem" -- how big of a problem is some asshole's "attitude" if the job market, education market and treatment under the law, is essentially equal.
And, as an aside, the Skepchick folks, quite simply, are not looking for just equality. Look at how they address the sexual comments issue. They come right out and say that women need to be protected from words that men don't need to be protected from, because women are raped and therefore are more sensitive to sexual comments. That's what they say. You can't have equality in this area, according to Skepchicks, because equality is discriminatory. A woman could ask a man for coffee in an elevator at 4am, and it wouldn't be the same thing at all...
