Religious gun nut kills Batman moviegoers

[Wumbologist]

the.... can we just fuckit and have a banana?

Just had one a couple of minutes ago, but I suppose I could handle another.

[Seth]

I'm sure if Seth had been in the cinema it would be unlikely 12 people would have died

20-30 + a couple of cops perhaps who knows.

When only criminals have guns the police known exactly who to shoot dead

Except that they didn't shoot the shooter dead, did they? Nope, they didn't...because he did the wise thing and dropped his guns when the police caught him. That's because our cops are properly trained not to just start shooting anyone with a gun at a crime scene. I'd do exactly the same thing if I were in the theater when the cops arrived. I'd engage the deranged criminal until I either put him down, get shot or run out of ammunition and when the police arrive (in about 90 seconds in this case...which was STILL too long to do any real good as the whole thing went down in about half that amount of time) I'd drop my gun and prone out on the floor and let them handcuff me and figure out what's going on rather than get shot by them for doing something stupid with my gun.

Of course, it's hardly surprising that paranoid hoplophobes would choose to sit there frozen in fear pissing and shitting themselves while a deranged gunman fills them with lead rather than chance sitting in the same auditorium with a lawfully-armed law-abiding citizen willing to risk his or her own life to defend those sorts of pusilanimous cowards...and everyone else.

Their paranoid fantasies and fears simply overwhelm any sort of rational thought or common sense when the subject of an armed citizenry comes up and they turn their fear on the object of their paranoia most irrationally.

The good news is that I'd stand up and risk my life defending even the paranoid hoplophobes of the world, even if I knew they were sitting right in front of me. That's because I have a sense of public duty and honor and I understand that those who are trained and prepared to act in such situations have a moral obligation to do so, even at risk to their own lives. This is something the paranoid hoplophobes are simply incapable of comprehending at all. They think only of themselves and their own personal safety and irrational fears, not of anyone else.

Some of them would probably shove a 14 year old girl in front of themselves to take the bullet meant for them if they could.

But I wouldn't really expect you to understand anything at all about the tactics of armed encounters in the first place.

I do know that if and when it happens to you, you'll be praying there's someone like me around in the 3 to 6 minutes it takes the police to arrive and be effective. I hope you're that lucky, but then again you'll most likely be hoist on your own petard.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

[MrJonno]

But I wouldn't really expect you to understand anything at all about the tactics of armed encounters in the first place.

Correct and nor would I want to, I also know nothing about how to survive a nuclear attack in a bunker or what to do if a wing falls of in an aircraft.

Far better to live in a society where that the chances of that are as minimised as possible instead of preparing for them which actually makes the chances of of it happening far more likely

[JimC]

Have gun, will feel potent...

[Twoflower]

Hey Seth, Would you engage the shooter if it was difficult to see from the tear gas he had tossed in the theater? If your eyesight was compromised wouldn't that mean you might accidentally hit someone else while aiming for the shooter? I'm curious if you would shoot no matter what, or decide based on other factors?

[mozg]

For those trying to turn this into an argument for gun control:

- His assault rifle jammed, so a ban wouldn't have made this less devastating.
- He had no criminal record, so no background check would have stopped this.
- Colorado has fairly permissive concealed carry laws, yet nobody in the audience had a gun.

Basically, this case provides no evidence one way or the other on this issue except for the people who need to force every god damn thing on the news into their own political narrative in order to piss me the right the hell off

Add: Cinemark's corporate policy prohibits all carry of firearms in the theaters that it owns and operates, with the exception of on duty police officers.

[Coito ergo sum]

Question, per capita is the number of murders by guns in the U.S. higher or lower than other countries with equivalent laws on guns?

If yes then surely it is something wrong with some part of American society that causes so many rather than the fact they have access to guns, no?
If no, then it's just the tool that people use to murder and thus the gun control argument is irrelevant, yes?

Is the gun control issue not just a red herring? Is the real issue much deeper or is there no real issue at all?

Just wondering.

I doubt that there are any other countries with equivalent gun laws...

(not counting countries with constant anarchy or low-level warfare)

I think an honest position for an American supporter of your current gun laws would be this:

"We accept that the wide availability of guns will inevitably lead to a murder rate much higher than other societies, and more frequent gun massacres by lunatics, but we consider this a reasonable price to pay for maintaining our freedom to bear arms"

Not exactly true. Our gun homicide rate is higher, sure. But, overall, we have a pretty good homicide/murder rate overall.

Like Europe, we have good areas and bad areas, and whether the homicide/murder rate overall is higher or lower does not correlate to whether guns are more or less restricted.

[Animavore]

I'm not sure I'm happy with the title of this thread. We don't know if he was religious and he certainly doesn't fit in with the description "gun-nut". I've seen nothing that suggests he vehemently supports gun laws or owns an arsenal of guns to protect against the government nor have I seen him parading about in fatigues sporting assault rifles and citing whichever amendment it is pertaining to guns (too lazy to look up).

[Tyrannical]

Hey Seth, Would you engage the shooter if it was difficult to see from the tear gas he had tossed in the theater? If your eyesight was compromised wouldn't that mean you might accidentally hit someone else while aiming for the shooter? I'm curious if you would shoot no matter what, or decide based on other factors?

Easy headshot from 10-20 feet away. Just aim at the guy wearing the gas mask. I'm quite confident that Seth could have pulled it off.

[Animavore]

Hey Seth, Would you engage the shooter if it was difficult to see from the tear gas he had tossed in the theater? If your eyesight was compromised wouldn't that mean you might accidentally hit someone else while aiming for the shooter? I'm curious if you would shoot no matter what, or decide based on other factors?

Easy headshot from 10-20 feet away. Just aim at the guy wearing the gas mask. I'm quite confident that Seth could have pulled it off.

Except no one was allowed guns in the cinema.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Hey Seth, Would you engage the shooter if it was difficult to see from the tear gas he had tossed in the theater? If your eyesight was compromised wouldn't that mean you might accidentally hit someone else while aiming for the shooter? I'm curious if you would shoot no matter what, or decide based on other factors?

Easy headshot from 10-20 feet away. Just aim at the guy wearing the gas mask. I'm quite confident that Seth could have pulled it off.

Except no one was allowed guns in the cinema.

I don't know more than one or two policemen who go unarmed, ever.

[Animavore]

Hey Seth, Would you engage the shooter if it was difficult to see from the tear gas he had tossed in the theater? If your eyesight was compromised wouldn't that mean you might accidentally hit someone else while aiming for the shooter? I'm curious if you would shoot no matter what, or decide based on other factors?

Easy headshot from 10-20 feet away. Just aim at the guy wearing the gas mask. I'm quite confident that Seth could have pulled it off.

Except no one was allowed guns in the cinema.

I don't know more than one or two policemen who go unarmed, ever.

Two of the people killed were trained soldiers. I'm not sure how a no gun rule policy is enforced in a private business, I would presume a metal detector would be in place?
Anyway it makes all this hero posturing from commentators here moot if they couldn't of had a gun anyway.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Ani, the soldiers don't necessarily carry in civies, their "work" weapons are government property. If there have been a few long guns in the crowd the chaos would have been most impressive, I think.

As for enforcing the rule, they don't. They throw you out if it's found that you are indeed packing. Two pimply high school kids will go to the person with the fire arm and escort that person out of the theater, by force if necessary. (Or they'll squeal for help if they have a rent-a-cop on the premises.)

[Tyrannical]

Hey Seth, Would you engage the shooter if it was difficult to see from the tear gas he had tossed in the theater? If your eyesight was compromised wouldn't that mean you might accidentally hit someone else while aiming for the shooter? I'm curious if you would shoot no matter what, or decide based on other factors?

Easy headshot from 10-20 feet away. Just aim at the guy wearing the gas mask. I'm quite confident that Seth could have pulled it off.

Except no one was allowed guns in the cinema.

That's just a "rule", like not bringing in outside food. All they can do is ask you to leave. Though in this case the city had laws against CCW.