Hi from Cupper

[JimC]

Welcome from the Deep South, cupper!

(but I agree with Aza's last post. A degree in Zoology, specialising in ecological interactions of amphibians, gave me a real appreciation for and fascination with the depth and complexity of interactions between components of any ecosystem, but when examined closely, those interactions don't exhibit any "top-down" processes, but derive from the myriad actions of organisms acting in a way fully consistent with their evolutionary history...)

[Gawdzilla Sama]

...

No, not preferred flavor, but when they examined why, it was because of the minerals in the soil that were what the bears needed. One cannot point at evolution as the motivator, as horsetails do not grow throughout the grizzly's range, nor is that mineral composition available throughout it's range. Bears in other areas have less efficient, but alternate, ways of obtaining the minerals.

Regardless, it still shows the organic and inorganic synergy that exists.

If the plants have something in them that the bears need, then there is most likely something about the plants' taste that is 'better' or more attractive. The bears are simply adapting to their environment by finding the most efficient way to get the nutrition they need.

Children eat ants when they're low on ascorbic acid. The South American Maned Wolf eats the lobelia fruit, which can only germinate after passing through a mammal digestive system, and is cured of the local variation of heart worm as a benefit.

Gaia is intelligent design for hippies.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

When you say Gaia are you referring to Lovelock's teleological theory? It has been debunked quite ruthlessly.

Scientifically, absolutely has been questioned,and should be from that perspective. Dawkins in particular is a significant participant in that discussion. However, from an ecological perspective, there is a lot to be said about the interconnectiveness of not only the biological components of earth, but the inorganic.

Let me give you an example. A study by Boyce et al on grizzly bears in Yellowstone National Park looked at some of the food sources. Horsetail is a dominant food source at specific times of the year. The natural hypothesis would be that the grizzlies would favor sites with an abundance of that food source.

That was not the case. In fact, Boyce found that grizzlies targeted horsetails that grew in soils that had certain mineral components over the areas where they were more abundant. This clearly is an example of the interconnnectiveness of both organic and inorganic substances beyond the obvious.

Spirituality is a different issue. However, we all know spirituality is not science based. Even though, from my perspective, listening to and being influenced by what nature tells us drives my personal spirituality. YMMV

Surely, the predilection of grizzlies for Equisetum with particular minerals is simply a matter of a preferred flavour? The simplest explanation for this preference is evolutionary (assuming it is a necessary mineral for the bear) and reflects the better survival/breeding rates of bears that prefer eating more nutritious foods.

There really is no need to introduce Gaian woo to accommodate it.

No, not preferred flavor, but when they examined why, it was because of the minerals in the soil that were what the bears needed. One cannot point at evolution as the motivator, as horsetails do not grow throughout the grizzly's range, nor is that mineral composition available throughout it's range. Bears in other areas have less efficient, but alternate, ways of obtaining the minerals.

Regardless, it still shows the organic and inorganic synergy that exists.

Kindly point to the scientific paper that shows that bears can detect necessary minerals in plants without taste being involved. I would love to read it. How do they tell otherwise? Can they hear the minerals in the horsetails? Or is this some hitherto unknown ursine ESP?

My money is still on the sense of taste.

[cupper3]

I can't figure out how to do multiple quotes (and maybe phpBB doesn't allow it as vBulletin does), but I will try and answer the multiple comments on Gaia vs spirituality.

Lovelock's hypothesis (it is NOT a scientific theory) remains stuck as a hypothesis because, although it has validity in some areas, it would be very hard to come up with a significant number of scientific tests to elevate it to a theory.

Using the concept to influence spirituality, however, is legitimate. Remember, we can't prove anyone's spiritual perception, however, IMHO, if one peruses one that respects and is influenced by the natural order of things, it perhaps has more validity then one that lives in the mind only and deifies an imaginary friend.

[FBM]

I don't believe that the planet is literally conscious and nurturing, but I don't have a problem with people who do. It's a benign concept that gives some people pleasure to ponder. As long as everybody's willing and nobody gets hurt. I'll complain about it when Gaians start knocking on my door, or when they start strapping bombs to themselves and walking into a crowded marketplace.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I can't figure out how to do multiple quotes (and maybe phpBB doesn't allow it as vBulletin does),

Scroll down to the window with the previous posts and click on the quote icon for each one you want to include in your reply. You can nest up to five quotes. After that you need to move the quote tags around to make a post the software will accept.

[cupper3]

I can't figure out how to do multiple quotes (and maybe phpBB doesn't allow it as vBulletin does),

Scroll down to the window with the previous posts and click on the quote icon for each one you want to include in your reply. You can nest up to five quotes. After that you need to move the quote tags around to make a post the software will accept.

Thanks, but that is not what I meant.

I was talking about replying to Poster A and B and including them in one response, as opposed to having to reply to them separately. If it can't be done, no biggy, although it does save some bandwidth, especially if the posts are of a similar theme.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I can't figure out how to do multiple quotes (and maybe phpBB doesn't allow it as vBulletin does),

Scroll down to the window with the previous posts and click on the quote icon for each one you want to include in your reply. You can nest up to five quotes. After that you need to move the quote tags around to make a post the software will accept.

Thanks, but that is not what I meant.

I was talking about replying to Poster A and B and including them in one response, as opposed to having to reply to them separately. If it can't be done, no biggy, although it does save some bandwidth, especially if the posts are of a similar theme.

Um, that's what I said.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I can't figure out how to do multiple quotes (and maybe phpBB doesn't allow it as vBulletin does),

Scroll down to the window with the previous posts and click on the quote icon for each one you want to include in your reply. You can nest up to five quotes. After that you need to move the quote tags around to make a post the software will accept.

Thanks, but that is not what I meant.

I was talking about replying to Poster A and B and including them in one response, as opposed to having to reply to them separately. If it can't be done, no biggy, although it does save some bandwidth, especially if the posts are of a similar theme.

Um, that's what I said.

[tattuchu]

My way might be a retarded way, but I do it like this:
I open two Firefox tabs with Rationalia on each and hit "quote" to reply to one of the posts I want to reply to. Then I go to the other tab and hit "quote" to reply to the other post I want to reply to. Then I just copy and paste from the second tab to the first tab. When I've done this successfully, I just close the second tab. So I then have two quotes in one post, and I reply to each. If I want to quote more than one post, then after I copy and paste from the second tab, I hit "back" and copy and paste the quote from another, and do that as many times as I like.
This way there's no messing around rearranging tabs.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Look at the pix I posted, Tat.

[amused]

Look at the pix I posted, Tat.

Okay, that's cool. AFTER you open the Reply window, then go down below and hit the quote buttons for each post you want to quote. Pay attention to the cursor location in your post because that's where it puts the quoted post.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Look at the pix I posted, Tat.

Okay, that's cool. AFTER you open the Reply window, then go down below and hit the quote buttons for each post you want to quote. Pay attention to the cursor location in your post because that's where it puts the quoted post.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I've never figured out Vbulletin's multiquote function.

[hadespussercats]

Look at the pix I posted, Tat.

Look at the pix I posted, Tat.

Okay, that's cool. AFTER you open the Reply window, then go down below and hit the quote buttons for each post you want to quote. Pay attention to the cursor location in your post because that's where it puts the quoted post.

Hey! I did it!

I used to do it the way tatt described. This is much easier.