Innovative Blades May Have Led to a Stone Age Population Boo

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Re: Innovative Blades May Have Led to a Stone Age Population Boo

Post by FBM » Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:20 pm

Feck wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:
FBM wrote:
Pappa wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:There is a brisk discussion about "The Best Skill to Have After TSHTF." over at ATS. Right now flint knapping is leading the field. Second, I think, is chartered accountancy.
Considering the general lack of flint, but the abundance of steel and iron, I think smithing would be a much more practical skill to learn. OK, you could use glass instead of flint, but still, you could only make blades.
After TSHTF, you'll want to have the most advanced skills possible, so I agree with smithing as the best choice. However, you lose a lot in mobility, as the tools and equipment are heavy and not particularly portable. Flint-knapping and woodcraft allow you mobility and some degree of independence. On the plus side of smithing, lots of peeps would like to have you around, so you wouldn't be at the top of the list of people to fuck with. That and the fact that you'd also have the ability to make some pretty good weapons... :eddy:
The best skill to have ATSHTF would be combat skills. Everybody else is going to be a serf once more.
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Re: Innovative Blades May Have Led to a Stone Age Population

Post by Horwood Beer-Master » Wed May 30, 2012 1:57 pm

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Re: Innovative Blades May Have Led to a Stone Age Population

Post by mistermack » Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:47 pm

It's very likely that spears were in use long before hand-axes.
Chimpanzees have been observed making and using spears, but never hand-axes.

At some point, some of our ancestors must have tried pushing flint flakes into the split point of a spear, rather than sharpening and hardening the wood. Maybe these micro-blades were used for the first spear-points, as well as other uses. For certain things, especially fishing and spearing small prey, sharpness of a spear would be far more important than strength.

I don't think that arrows were in use 40,000 years ago. I think that the bow only dates back to about 25,000 years ago, and that was in Africa.

The smaller flakes were often produced anyway, when shaping hand-axes, so it was a case of finding a use for what was previously wasted, and then building the skills in making and using them.
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Re: Innovative Blades May Have Led to a Stone Age Population

Post by Pappa » Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:54 pm

The archaeology doesn't back that up mistermack. The concept of using tiny flakes to make weapons and tools is a relatively late one. Prior to that people created an object from a larger piece of flint, modelling it on a mental template. Waste flakes were usually just left in piles on the floor. Footprint shapes have even been found where the flakes fell around the feet of the flint-knapper. Waste flakes generally don't show signs of use either.

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Re: Innovative Blades May Have Led to a Stone Age Population

Post by Pappa » Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:15 pm

Pappa wrote:
FBM wrote:
Pappa wrote:Yep.

If you can't get a teacher, I'd recommend getting a good book or two on the subject first. You'll understand the process much better conceptually before you begin. Otherwise you'll just be bashing rocks together and wondering why they do what they do. The physics is pretty fascinating too.

I have both of these, and they are excellent.

http://www.amazon.com/Flintknapping-Mak ... 29279083X/
http://www.amazon.com/Art-Flint-Knappin ... 0016FZJWW/
Good, good. I've already downloaded acquired several books and a few instructional videos online. Any tips on the best places to find workable stone? Creek beds?
Yes and no. Creek beds will have abundant reserves of flint and chert, but it will be of poor quality and contain many stress fractures. It's better than nothing though.

If you can find a chalk outcrop somewhere, you will probably find huge nodules of flint in it.
FBM, idk why I didn't think to mention this before, but the bases of glass bottles make pretty good practice material.

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Re: Innovative Blades May Have Led to a Stone Age Population

Post by Atheist-Lite » Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:22 pm

Kids would have used the flakes and in a population boom these flakes would have initially served as a indicator of low status or immaturity. The mavericks and geeks being low status, as always, would have tended to view the flakes as a symbol of their 'outgroup status' and overtime modified them to compete with the brutes with the bigger best weapons? I doubt if these was a smoking gun genius out there but rather a social dynamic pushing a gradual technological development which led to the inevitable confrontation between brute force and ideas. Once the sharper chips had won everybody wanted one. :smoke:
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Re: Innovative Blades May Have Led to a Stone Age Population

Post by mistermack » Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:27 pm

Pappa wrote:The archaeology doesn't back that up mistermack. The concept of using tiny flakes to make weapons and tools is a relatively late one. Prior to that people created an object from a larger piece of flint, modelling it on a mental template. Waste flakes were usually just left in piles on the floor. Footprint shapes have even been found where the flakes fell around the feet of the flint-knapper. Waste flakes generally don't show signs of use either.
I would expect that to be the case for most of history, when a hand-axe was being made and there was no known use for the flakes. But you would think it logical that flakes were originally the waste from making hand-axes, that were experimented with.

I would imagine that scraping and cutting a skin would have been a very early use, as well as scraping meat off bones. Once these uses became a valuable asset, you might then get flakes being produced just for their own sake. It might be the case that using smaller flakes for working skins was the way that the skills developed of fixing them to wood.

They might have been using bits of wood to push the blade, to stop their hands getting sore.
From there you might choose a bit of wood with a split in it, that would keep the blade steady as you worked. You then have the beginnings of a knife. Much lighter to carry, and easier to replace, than a hand axe.

A hand axe would have the disadvantage of being heavy and hard to keep sharp. Flakes are sharper, and you can replace them easily if they go blunt or break.,

Once the techniques for fixing a blade into wood were improved, they could progress to very rudimentary spear points, before sophisticated stuff like the Clovis Point was invented.

It's a while since I read up on stone tools, but I do remember that the skills level varied widely, from area to area. Some societies making progress, others sticking to very old technologies.
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Re: Innovative Blades May Have Led to a Stone Age Population

Post by Svartalf » Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:34 pm

Men, men, don't you know that nowadays silicium is better used as chips than as chert blades?
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Re: Innovative Blades May Have Led to a Stone Age Population

Post by Svartalf » Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:40 pm

Pappa wrote:The archaeology doesn't back that up mistermack. The concept of using tiny flakes to make weapons and tools is a relatively late one. Prior to that people created an object from a larger piece of flint, modelling it on a mental template. Waste flakes were usually just left in piles on the floor. Footprint shapes have even been found where the flakes fell around the feet of the flint-knapper. Waste flakes generally don't show signs of use either.
Also, you use a relatively large piece to make a spear head, tiny flakes are for precision blades and scrapers and arrow points, spear heads can be on a more similar scale to axes, than the small tools we're dealing with here.
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Re: Innovative Blades May Have Led to a Stone Age Population

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:39 pm

Svartalf wrote:
Pappa wrote:The archaeology doesn't back that up mistermack. The concept of using tiny flakes to make weapons and tools is a relatively late one. Prior to that people created an object from a larger piece of flint, modelling it on a mental template. Waste flakes were usually just left in piles on the floor. Footprint shapes have even been found where the flakes fell around the feet of the flint-knapper. Waste flakes generally don't show signs of use either.
Also, you use a relatively large piece to make a spear head, tiny flakes are for precision blades and scrapers and arrow points, spear heads can be on a more similar scale to axes, than the small tools we're dealing with here.
I think that would depend on the game being hunted. For example, children could hunt rabbits with spears not much larger than arrows.
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Re: Innovative Blades May Have Led to a Stone Age Population

Post by Tero » Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:43 pm

Pappa wrote:The conceptual leap from hand-axes and other specific tools to blades taken from a prepared core is truly revolutionary. The person who realised that was a genius indeed.
We should have stayed in the tree. I blame this guy for all 7+ billion of us. So not my fault. I just made 2 replacement units.

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