Lets have a global "one child" policy

[Robert_S]

Personally, I find the idea of forcible human population control very distasteful, but less distasteful than ecological collapse, widespread disease, mass starvation and the like. We do the same for animals when we've knocked off their predators and they're in danger of mass suffering by culling the adults. Should I kill myself for allowing for the possibility that maybe the right for a couple to have that extra child might not be as sacrosanct as the right for everyone else to not have to deal with disease, starvation and so on.

Well, I don't claim a horse in this race yet, but as a point to consider-- are you worth more than that "extra" child? You were someone's extra child once.

In circumstances of scarcity, would you take kindly to a couple asking you accept a shorter lifespan and drastically lower quality of life for your one child so they can have their sixth?

[Hermit]

I'm with Seth on this one. You have a problem with overpopulation and want a forcible solution? Go fucking kill yourself. That'll be a start. And I DO mean that seriously.

I still think a vasectomy will be just as effective without being so drastic.

[maiforpeace]

I'm with Seth on this one. You have a problem with overpopulation and want a forcible solution? Go fucking kill yourself. That'll be a start. And I DO mean that seriously.

I still think a vasectomy will be just as effective without being so drastic dramatic.

[Robert_S]

I'm with Seth on this one. You have a problem with overpopulation and want a forcible solution? Go fucking kill yourself. That'll be a start. And I DO mean that seriously.

I still think a vasectomy will be just as effective without being so drastic dramatic.

I'll just keep wrapping it up thank you.

[hadespussercats]

Personally, I find the idea of forcible human population control very distasteful, but less distasteful than ecological collapse, widespread disease, mass starvation and the like. We do the same for animals when we've knocked off their predators and they're in danger of mass suffering by culling the adults. Should I kill myself for allowing for the possibility that maybe the right for a couple to have that extra child might not be as sacrosanct as the right for everyone else to not have to deal with disease, starvation and so on.

Well, I don't claim a horse in this race yet, but as a point to consider-- are you worth more than that "extra" child? You were someone's extra child once.

In circumstances of scarcity, would you take kindly to a couple asking you accept a shorter lifespan and drastically lower quality of life for your one child so they can have their sixth?

I don't believe that's the situation at hand. But all of us would be accepting those shorter lifespans, etc., in your scenario. And that would be the case for any person versus another, whether they're a sixth child or a first.

[Pappa]

Personally, I find the idea of forcible human population control very distasteful, but less distasteful than ecological collapse, widespread disease, mass starvation and the like.

I don't know why I bother. The name of this forum is rationalia, but rationality is just as scarce here as anywhere else.

Let me repeat. There is no bloody population explosion. There is no ecological collapse, widespread disease or mass starvation due to overpopulation. That is a myth.

Reality is slowing population growth, which will stop and then go into decline by 2100 at around 10 billion. Read the bloody United Nations reference I posted! We can comfortably feed 10 billion people. We will have massively increased technological capabilities by 2100, and if we cannot avoid ecological collapse and mass disease by then, there is something very badly wrong, and it is not overpopulation.

Out of curiosity, if it's so easy to feed the world with hydroponics, why are there starving people in the world? What makes you assume the future will be like some technological idyl right out of Star Trek?

[FBM]

Current economic models and practices do not support 'global plenty' models that include feeding poor and/or starving people free of charge.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

The problem is not one of underproduction of food. It is one of failed distribution. It always has been. America and Western Europe throw away more food in a day than some countries eat in a month!

The other problem is that the countries where the birth rate is highest are also those with: the lowest per-capita income; the lowest per-capita food production; the lowest levels of technology; the highest levels of superstition; governmental corruption and incompetence and chronic, internal or external conflicts.

The solution is to empower, educate and emancipate. A country full of aspirational, well-fed, well-educated individuals and (most importantly) where the women are treated as equals and not as baby-factories and unpaid slaves, can lift itself out of poverty and overpopulation in a few generations. just look at India today and compare it to 50 years ago - or even 20!

[Hermit]

The problem is not one of underproduction of food. It is one of failed distribution. It always has been. America and Western Europe throw away more food in a day than some countries eat in a month!

The other problem is that the countries where the birth rate is highest are also those with: the lowest per-capita income; the lowest per-capita food production; the lowest levels of technology; the highest levels of superstition; governmental corruption and incompetence and chronic, internal or external conflicts.

The solution is to empower, educate and emancipate. A country full of aspirational, well-fed, well-educated individuals and (most importantly) where the women are treated as equals and not as baby-factories and unpaid slaves, can lift itself out of poverty and overpopulation in a few generations. just look at India today and compare it to 50 years ago - or even 20!

Exactly.

[Blind groper]

What makes you assume the future will be like some technological idyl right out of Star Trek?

Interesting how the next couple of posts after the one from which I grabbed this quote were so very, very sensible.

it is heartening to realise that some of the people on this thread actually do have a good grasp of reality after all.

To Pappa.
No. I never said the future would be like Star Trek. I said that we could feed 10 billion comfortably. And we can. Whether we will is another matter. The reasons for the failure, if it happens, came in the above two posts.

[Hermit]

I said that we could feed 10 billion comfortably. And we can. Whether we will is another matter.

Sufficient food for 10 billion people is eminently possible, but is it sustainable alongside the consumption of other resources?

[Robert_S]

I said that we could feed 10 billion comfortably. And we can. Whether we will is another matter.

Sufficient food for 10 billion people is eminently possible, but is it sustainable alongside the consumption of other resources?

Especially widespread biofuel use?

[JimC]

It's some what ironic that Western civilization created the global over population problem through scientific achievements, yet is largely unaffected by over population themselves. If we had only followed that Star Trek prime directive

Actually, the West could have prevented much of the problem by spreading birth control and secularism along with the great medicines that allowed much lower infant mortality. It's the Mother Teresa types that, for all their virtues, won't abandon their stupid old mythologies even when profound human suffering is on the line.

Cue someone with the "poor maligned Catholic Church" sob story again.

Abso-fucking-lutely...

And yet, all the liberal catholic folk I know use birth-control, quietly ignoring the moronic rubbish purveyed by the hierarchy. One day, the third world catholics will do the same...

[Robert_S]

It's some what ironic that Western civilization created the global over population problem through scientific achievements, yet is largely unaffected by over population themselves. If we had only followed that Star Trek prime directive

Actually, the West could have prevented much of the problem by spreading birth control and secularism along with the great medicines that allowed much lower infant mortality. It's the Mother Teresa types that, for all their virtues, won't abandon their stupid old mythologies even when profound human suffering is on the line.

Cue someone with the "poor maligned Catholic Church" sob story again.

Abso-fucking-lutely...

And yet, all the liberal catholic folk I know use birth-control, quietly ignoring the moronic rubbish purveyed by the hierarchy. One day, the third world catholics will do the same...

The thing is, they do it too quietly.

[JimC]

^^^^^^^

Fair point, they just cherry pick, basically...