Obama - Bush On Steroids?

[Clinton Huxley]

Article in the Observer today, detailing how under Obama, drone strikes have rocketed, surveillance of US citizens has become ever more ubiquitous, more documents have been kept secret and old laws from WW1 have been used to silence whistleblowers.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/ju ... rack-obama

All looks a bit dodgy to me.

[FBM]

Reported.

[Ian]

Drone strikes have increased dramatically, though I really don't understand why this is controversial (except in cases where they take place on the unpopular side of Pakistan's border, but this is still no different from manned airstrikes which do the same thing). The rest of that article is pretty much a crock of shit.

[Clinton Huxley]

Drone strikes have increased dramatically, though I really don't understand why this is controversial (except in cases where they take place on the unpopular side of Pakistan's border, but this is still no different from manned airstrikes which do the same thing). The rest of that article is pretty much a crock of shit.

I knew you'd say that....

Which bits, specifically, are crocks of shit? And why?

[mistermack]

Drone strikes have increased dramatically, though I really don't understand why this is controversial (except in cases where they take place on the unpopular side of Pakistan's border, but this is still no different from manned airstrikes which do the same thing). The rest of that article is pretty much a crock of shit.

Agreed. The Guardian is just reprinting republican election material to fill in space for practically no cost.
A cheap shitty article from a cheap shitty paper.

[Ian]

Their heart might be in the right place, but this article is amateur hour. "Obama promised to close Gitmo and didn't." Sheesh, I could counter that with a single word: Congress.

[FBM]

Well, ObL is dead, along with a fair number of his play pals. Maybe Bush should've been on steroids in the first place?

[Drewish]

There are many lies and failures perpetrated by Obama that he should be held accountable for. This article however seems to focus on some cherry picking elements though. Drone strikes have increased, but that is largely due to having fewer troops present, no? Gitmo didn't close, but that is one area where Obama actually tried to follow through and was blocked by congress. The surveillance point is well taken though. Obama's acceptance of the powers given by the Patriot Act as well as his complete failure in his open government initiatives is something he should be held accountable for. I also doubt that Republicans are the ones pushing the notion of Obama being too tough with his foreign policy. That's most likely the libertarians and the people on the left who are really more concerned with peace than cheering for Obama regardless of his actions.

[Warren Dew]

Well, ObL is dead, along with a fair number of his play pals. Maybe Bush should've been on steroids in the first place?

Darn right. If the rest of the world is going to see us as evil aggressors and the next worst thing to Nazi Germany anyway, might as well make their beliefs true, eh? More steroids and pointless killing!

[FBM]

Well, ObL is dead, along with a fair number of his play pals. Maybe Bush should've been on steroids in the first place?

Darn right. If the rest of the world is going to see us as evil aggressors and the next worst thing to Nazi Germany anyway, might as well make their beliefs true, eh? More steroids and pointless killing!

Yeah. There was no point in killing ObL.

[Warren Dew]

Drone strikes have increased, but that is largely due to having fewer troops present, no?

No. There are two or three times as many American troops in Afghanistan than at the end of the Bush administration. By the end of the Bush administration, the fighting in Iraq had quieted down and we were withdrawing, and Afghanistan was continuing at a low level. The number of troops involved in active combat has skyrocketed under Obama.

Gitmo didn't close, but that is one area where Obama actually tried to follow through and was blocked by congress.

That's because Obama didn't really want to close Gitmo, he just wanted to move it to Illinois.

The surveillance point is well taken though.

Yes.

Obama's acceptance of the powers given by the Patriot Act as well as his complete failure in his open government initiatives is something he should be held accountable for. I also doubt that Republicans are the ones pushing the notion of Obama being too tough with his foreign policy. That's most likely the libertarians and the people on the left who are really more concerned with peace than cheering for Obama regardless of his actions.

Most actual libertarians are de facto Republicans these days. That's why Ron Paul could take 40% of the Republican vote when he ran head to head with Romney in Virginia.

[Warren Dew]

Well, ObL is dead, along with a fair number of his play pals. Maybe Bush should've been on steroids in the first place?

Darn right. If the rest of the world is going to see us as evil aggressors and the next worst thing to Nazi Germany anyway, might as well make their beliefs true, eh? More steroids and pointless killing!

Yeah. There was no point in killing ObL.

Osama bin Laden was neither killed by drone strikes nor by the vast increase in commitment of regular forces, nor was he even killed in Afghanistan. His death had nothing to do with the massive escalation of U.S. forces in the area.

[Tyrannical]

I've honestly wondered if Obama is even calling the shots. Aside from occasionally pandering to Blacks with affirmative action jobs (Eric Holder, tests be racist) or lawsuits (pigford settlements), and socialized medicine (Obama care)