Unarmed teen shooting: the debate rages on...

[Coito ergo sum]

Coito, after reading your reply to thampalumpacus, I am now certain that your wires are disconnected. You are constantly spinning the wheel to nowhere to try to make everyone understand your point of view which is more twisted than the spaghetti junction in Atlanta.

I'm done.

I'll credit you with English being your second language, and leave it there.

[Coito ergo sum]

You'e a big part of that clusterfuck[...]

Considering that I only entered this on the 55th or so page of the second thread, no, my part is rather miniscule, thanks.

I was referring to your pointing fingers at others for alleged misstatements, when you're posts have been rife with same.

As for the rest of your stuff, I'm not going to be bothered, because as I've already said, this is pointless. And it's not pointless because "people disagree" with me. I understand that that is going to happen. No big deal. In fact, I enjoy informative disagreement. Challenging my own precepts is a good way to learn.

What makes it pointless is that nothing I say will change your mind, and you're not presenting any new information here, either.

This shit is nonsense. Stop with the "this is pointless because nothing "I" say will change "your" mind..." garbage. What you say may well change my mind. What you've SAID hasn't changed my mind for the reasons I stated. You base your statements on material misstatements of known facts, and I've pointed some of them out to you. YOU refuse to acknowledge any of them, or even address them.

And, what about the fact that nothing "I" say will change "your" mind?

Presenting new information? What "new information" have you provided, Thump? It's hard enough to get people to fucking acknowledge that the dispatcher simply, and plainly did NOT tell Zimmerman to stay in the car, or to not follow Martin prior to Z actually getting out of the car to follow after Martin. You and kiki both seem intent on sticking to such misstatements of fact, and even the accurate information won't seem to sink in.

Why bother? I'm not going to get all-caps angry over you or your views. It's not worth it, to me.

Why bother? Because this is a discussion and debate and you voluntarily chose to interject your views into the discussion, apparently to play elder statesmen and set things right. Well, if you expect not to have your views challenged or discussed, then why did you "bother" posting in a discussion thread to begin with?

If it is, to you, have at it.

Me, I'll wait for the jury to hear the evidence, all of it, and trust them to hand down the proper verdict.

No, obviously you won't. You've made definitive claims about the evidence that you aren't waiting for the jury to decide. You've said that Zimmerman ignored the instructions of the dispatcher, for example. However, that is an issue that will be decided by the jury. You won't even say there is doubt either way on that point. You claim to be waiting for the jury, but your arguments seek to convict Zimmerman.

Again -- I and FBM and Warren Dew, etc., we are the ones "waiting for the jury to hear the evidence," since we are not convicting Zimmerman at this time, or calling him a murderer, paranoid, gun nut, psycho. Those that have already concluded that Zimmerman is "responsible" are the ones not waiting for the jury.

Those of us saying there is reasonable doubt based on the evidence we are privy to so far are the ones waiting. Yet you attack me instead of kiki or mai, ay? Why? Why don't you address the fact that THEY won't wait for the jury? Why don't you address the fact that THEY won't even bring themselves to admit that there is any doubt as to Zimmerman's responsibility?

[Coito ergo sum]

The thread seemed to have some insight into how gun nuts think guns always bring something positive to the situation. With all the concealed gun laws, we should have some interesting decades ahead. Gun nuts walking around, picking appropriate times to pull out the gun and get away with murder.

The main gun thread does not interest me. Where is it these days?

Who are you calling "gun nuts" here?

[kiki5711]

Coito, after reading your reply to thampalumpacus, I am now certain that your wires are disconnected. You are constantly spinning the wheel to nowhere to try to make everyone understand your point of view which is more twisted than the spaghetti junction in Atlanta.

I'm done.

I'll credit you with English being your second language, and leave it there.

Thank you. I'm sorry I can't say the same for you.

[kiki5711]

Those of us saying there is reasonable doubt based on the evidence we are privy to so far are the ones waiting. Yet you attack me instead of kiki or mai, ay? Why? Why don't you address the fact that THEY won't wait for the jury? Why don't you address the fact that THEY won't even bring themselves to admit that there is any doubt as to Zimmerman's responsibility?

I'm speaking only on behalf of myself when I say "I never said everything we know so far was set in stone".... Only, that you keep twisting my words and yours in such a way that no sane conversation can continue.

[Coito ergo sum]

Coito, after reading your reply to thampalumpacus, I am now certain that your wires are disconnected. You are constantly spinning the wheel to nowhere to try to make everyone understand your point of view which is more twisted than the spaghetti junction in Atlanta.

I'm done.

I'll credit you with English being your second language, and leave it there.

Thank you. I'm sorry I can't say the same for you.

LOL -- keep trying kiki. Right. I just don't have the cognitive abilities to keep up with your complex and incisive arguments. Your command of the facts is remarkable in its depth and accuracy. You clearly are a towering intellect.

I leave the field to you, kiki. Tell us again how Zimmerman set it all in motion when he disregarded the dispatchers order that he remain in his car, and then, motivated by his paranoia, psychosis and general gun-nuttery, ran Martin down like a dog and shot him in cold blood in order to satiate his innate hunger to "kill me a nigger.."

[Coito ergo sum]

Those of us saying there is reasonable doubt based on the evidence we are privy to so far are the ones waiting. Yet you attack me instead of kiki or mai, ay? Why? Why don't you address the fact that THEY won't wait for the jury? Why don't you address the fact that THEY won't even bring themselves to admit that there is any doubt as to Zimmerman's responsibility?

I'm speaking only on behalf of myself when I say "I never said everything we know so far was set in stone".... Only, that you keep twisting my words and yours in such a way that no sane conversation can continue.

So, do you have doubts as to Zimmerman's guilt and responsibility for murder and/or the incident? I'd love to hear where you see a jury being able to reach more than one reasonable conclusion based on the facts.

[Tero]

Gun nuts here and elsewhere think there is a benefit to people walking around with guns. No benefit for me.

[Coito ergo sum]

Gun nuts here and elsewhere think there is a benefit to people walking around with guns. No benefit for me.

Who are the gun nuts here?

[FBM]

I wonder how many H. sapiens sapies throughout history have felt comfortable and confident walking around without a weapon of some sort? But of course, that's anachronistic thinking. There are no threats or dangers in the modern world. We just have to remember to wear our helmets, elbow and knee pads and everything will be just

[Coito ergo sum]

I wonder how many H. sapiens sapies throughout history have felt comfortable and confident walking around without a weapon of some sort? But of course, that's anachronistic thinking. There are no threats or dangers in the modern world. We just have to remember to wear our helmets, elbow and knee pads and everything will be just

And, "its only property." I'd much rather have someone empty my bank account, steal the toys from my children, destroy our personal effects and mementos, and burn our house down. After all, it's just property, and a criminal's health and safety is far more important. Heck, rape my wife and daughter, too, because it's just a few minutes of discomfort for them. Not worth exerting deadly force about...

[kiki5711]

motivated by his paranoia, psychosis and general gun-nuttery, ran Martin down like a dog and shot him in cold blood in order to satiate his innate hunger to "kill me a nigger.."

I never said it happened that way, but you keep on spinning everything I say to make it sound that way, and so therefore there is no use continuing.

[FBM]

I wonder how many H. sapiens sapies throughout history have felt comfortable and confident walking around without a weapon of some sort? But of course, that's anachronistic thinking. There are no threats or dangers in the modern world. We just have to remember to wear our helmets, elbow and knee pads and everything will be just

And, "its only property." I'd much rather have someone empty my bank account, steal the toys from my children, destroy our personal effects and mementos, and burn our house down. After all, it's just property, and a criminal's health and safety is far more important. Heck, rape my wife and daughter, too, because it's just a few minutes of discomfort for them. Not worth exerting deadly force about...

Every sperm is sacred!

[Tero]

Coito, I can't assess that, as I have not met, nor do I plant to, the gun nuts here.

Kiki is not a gun nut. All others are, potentially.

[FBM]

Coito, I can't assess that, as I have not met, nor do I plant to, the hun nuts here.

Kiki is not a gun nut. All others are, potentially.

Wait, you met me. And by...certain standards...I'm one of the gun nuts. I own pistols, rifles and shotguns and enjoy playing with them. I have a license to carry a concealed firearm and do so when I'm in the US where it's legal to do so. I'm certifiably by...certain standards.

I also used to be a Buddhist monk. I catch insects and release them outside rather than kill them. I no longer hunt or fish because the thought of killing repulses me, and I would only do it as a last resort to save my own life. Man, am I fucked up, or what?