
Moral Crimes ??
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Moral Crimes ??
Is there a case for moral crimes outside of a patently criminal state? Sometimes the law is a ass and people are tempted to kick it in the butt, so are there times? I'm talking about stealing, perjury, pick-pocketing, burglarly or robbery even. Not just crimes in high finance. 

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Re: Moral Crimes ??
Crimes against good taste should be criminalised.


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Re: Moral Crimes ??
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Re: Moral Crimes ??
Crimes against crimes.Hermit wrote:Crimes against good taste should be criminalised.

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Re: Moral Crimes ??
Too much convention leads to OCD. There are too many 'squares' in this day and age. I guess that is why I posted this? 

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Re: Moral Crimes ??
Pappa wrote:Crimes against crimes.Hermit wrote:Crimes against good taste should be criminalised.

Anything that is prohibited in law is a crime. Also, anything which is not specifically permitted by the law may be seen as a crime to all intents and purposes - setting legal presidents in this way gives the law flexibility. Therefore moral arguments for this-or-that have to be made on a case by case basis aside from the law where (hopefully) the acts to support the morally good and to discourage the morally bad. Those defined as terrorists under the law may claim to be acting to reduce suffering and promote freedoms which are denied them, making attacks against their oppressors morally justifiable in their eyes, for example. In fact, most terrorists organisations assert the moral primacy of their position - it's par for the course even when terrorist organisations are functionally indistinguishable from organised criminal gangs.
Examples of moral inconsistency in the law abound. Legal proscriptions against certain intoxicating compounds seem wholly morally inconsistent in a setting where the consumption of some quite powerful and addictive compounds is permitted while the consumption of less powerful, less harmful compounds are not - specifically when the moral justification for prohibiting a compound in law is asserted on the basis of the harm these compounds cause to individual and/or society.

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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Moral Crimes ??
Precedents.Brian Peacock wrote:anything which is not specifically permitted by the law may be seen as a crime to all intents and purposes - setting legal presidents in this way gives the law flexibility.
They are actually also used to win cases for the defendant. More importantly, many cases are thrown out of court precisely because an action alleged by the prosecution to be criminal has not been specifically proscribed by the law that has been invoked.
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Re: Moral Crimes ??
Yes. Yes and yes. Flexibility, as I said. I just wanted to define crime for the purposes of my comments, and thought I should at least mention that even when no specific law against this-or-that exists it could still be treated as a crime for all intents and purposes. The process of law by presidents is quite a robust way for the law to respond to changes in circumstances, new information, and the fluctuations of the prevailing moral outlook.Hermit wrote:Precedents.Brian Peacock wrote:anything which is not specifically permitted by the law may be seen as a crime to all intents and purposes - setting legal presidents in this way gives the law flexibility.
They are actually also used to win cases for the defendant. More importantly, many cases are thrown out of court precisely because an action alleged by the prosecution to be criminal has not been specifically proscribed by the law that has been invoked.
Last edited by Brian Peacock on Thu May 24, 2012 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
Re: Moral Crimes ??
Not necessarily, parking fines are not criminal offences, neither are civil torts.Brian Peacock wrote:Pappa wrote:Crimes against crimes.Hermit wrote:Crimes against good taste should be criminalised.![]()
Anything that is prohibited in law is a crime.
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Re: Moral Crimes ??
Dubya?Hermit wrote:Crimes against good taste should be criminalised.
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Re: Moral Crimes ??
Depends how you view it... fines are for criminal offences, sure, petty ones, not felonies, or even misdemeanors, but crimes nonetheless, as the states takes it on themelves to repress such behavior and punish the culprits, treating it for all practical purposes like crimes..HomerJay wrote:Not necessarily, parking fines are not criminal offences, neither are civil torts.Brian Peacock wrote:Pappa wrote:Crimes against crimes.Hermit wrote:Crimes against good taste should be criminalised.![]()
Anything that is prohibited in law is a crime.
As for civil torts... that's a question of legal doctrine. They are not dealt with by criminal courts, as in those cases it's a dispute between private parties rather than a state prosecution, but old common knowledge had it that your responsibility was engaged for acts where you were at fault, French parlance even used the term "civil crimes" (délit civil) to describe them, meaning that you were guilty of causing tortious damages and had to pay for it.
The notion of guiltless responsibility is relatively recent.
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Re: Moral Crimes ??
You tasted him?Gawdzilla wrote:Dubya?Hermit wrote:Crimes against good taste should be criminalised.
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Re: Moral Crimes ??
I might have called this WEIRD crimes but this does not sum up the wrongness of the times in a complete way. Trying to get a precise idea of what I meant would require some effort in recollection, so I will consider it a divergent title and allow you to bring whatever baggage you wish on board the lifeboat question here?

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Re: Moral Crimes ??
OK. I should have been clearer. Anything that the law defines as criminal is by definition a crime. Parking fines reflect legally enforceable judgements and are accrued when it is shown that the relevant law or local prohibition has not been obeyed. I didn't want to write a lengthy qualification to presage my general point, which still stands I think.HomerJay wrote:Not necessarily, parking fines are not criminal offences, neither are civil torts.Brian Peacock wrote:Pappa wrote:Crimes against crimes.Hermit wrote:Crimes against good taste should be criminalised.![]()
Anything that is prohibited in law is a crime.
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"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
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"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Moral Crimes ??
Anyone want to define "moral"?
I generally use God as the standard, what God loves is moral, and what God abhors is immoral.
I generally use God as the standard, what God loves is moral, and what God abhors is immoral.
A rational skeptic should be able to discuss and debate anything, no matter how much they may personally disagree with that point of view. Discussing a subject is not agreeing with it, but understanding it.
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