US Prez Election 2012 Thread - Opinions and Discussions

[trdsf]

Rubio's eligibility is questionable, being born to two non-citizens. Also, picking a Cuban might not win the Hispanic vote because of the way Cuban refugees versus all other Hispanics are treated via immigration.

Mittens might pick Paul, or he might not have much choice if he find he needs Paul's support to win.

If he picks a Paul, it'll be Rand, not Ron. Though that'll be close enough for Paul's people.

[Warren Dew]

I would feel better about it if Romney remembered -- it could have then been a learning experience.

The problem with drawing conclusions from his not remembering, though, is that it may not even have happened.

The one supposed "witness" who was bothered by it turns out not to have seen it and have been told only a few weeks before the interview with the Washington Post. The guy who actually was there and participated may have been put up to it as well. He may remember his own participation, but he could very well be mistaken about who he did it with - and have identified it as Romney only after prompting.

[Warren Dew]

Rubio's eligibility is questionable, being born to two non-citizens. Also, picking a Cuban might not win the Hispanic vote because of the way Cuban refugees versus all other Hispanics are treated via immigration.

Picking a Cuban would help in Florida, though maybe not in California. Florida is a key state, though - by some accounts a swing state.

[Warren Dew]

Just look how Obama treats his family.
He has two illegal alien relatives in the US living off of welfare, and numerous other Kenyan relatives living dirt poor while Obama has millions. Hard to believe people are still gullible enough to think Obama care's for the poor when he won't even help his own family.

Just curious, do you have any poor relatives?

I do, and there's only so much one can do to help people who are poor...especially family. They have to be willing to help themselves. He could pull all the strings in the world for his illegal relatives, but they probably remain illegal because they didn't want to do what they had to do.

There is a limit, but the limit doesn't include letting them stay poor if you're a multimillionaire. If I can spare a few thousand now and then to help out family in need, Obama can afford tens of thousands. Obviously he's not obligated to do that, but then his criticism of the "rich" is pretty hypocritical.

[trdsf]

I would feel better about it if Romney remembered -- it could have then been a learning experience.

The problem with drawing conclusions from his not remembering, though, is that it may not even have happened.

The one supposed "witness" who was bothered by it turns out not to have seen it and have been told only a few weeks before the interview with the Washington Post. The guy who actually was there and participated may have been put up to it as well. He may remember his own participation, but he could very well be mistaken about who he did it with - and have identified it as Romney only after prompting.

Funny how the only sites I can find raising questions about the report are those that have a clear partisan position -- find me a real news site reporting this. I wouldn't expect you to accept a report from a HuffPo blogger or Daily Kos. They're alleging it comes from NBC, but funny how there's nothing on the NBC News site. LexisNexis has the complete transcript (what little there was), and Alexander's comments do not reflect any actual research undermining the allegations, but only some short-term reactions to the news.

And you also make it sound like there's only one or two witnesses, when there are five, on the record.

Sorry, not good enough.

[Warren Dew]

Funny how the only sites I can find raising questions about the report are those that have a clear partisan position -- find me a real news site reporting this.

Since there aren't many nonpartisan news sites any more, how about a correction from the original leftist partisan source, the Washington Post:

Editor’s Note: An earlier version of this story reported that White “has long been bothered” by the Lauber incident. White later clarified in a subsequent interview that he has been disturbed by the incident since he learned of it several weeks ago from a former classmate, before being contacted by The Washington Post.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ ... ory_4.html

That pretty much confirms the critiques found on the rightist partisan brietbart site.
Before the correction was made: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism ... mney-Bully
After the correction was made but before the correction note was added: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism ... e-Implodes

And of course the guy who is quoted in the Post article as having been there has this to say in the less biased Automobile magazine:

"I'm a Democrat, so I won't vote for him," says Maxwell. "But he'd probably make a pretty good president. He's very smart, very principled."

More from that article:

"The thing about Mitt is that he's so much smarter than George [Romney, Mitt's father]," says Schaefer.

With his powerful father, "He could have been an arrogant, stuck-up, snotty little brat," says Dearth. "But he was a great guy -- an all-American kid with a great sense of humor, very self-effacing." And although it's been documented that Romney played a teenage prank or two -- including once impersonating a police officer in order to scare some female friends -- Dearth remembers Mitt as the most straitlaced kid in the neighborhood.

http://www.automobilemag.com/features/n ... y/amc.html

[Tyrannical]

Rubio's eligibility is questionable, being born to two non-citizens. Also, picking a Cuban might not win the Hispanic vote because of the way Cuban refugees versus all other Hispanics are treated via immigration.

Picking a Cuban would help in Florida, though maybe not in California. Florida is a key state, though - by some accounts a swing state.

Are there that many Cubans in Florida? I kind of think most Florida Hispanics aren't Cuban, and that Cubans already lean Republican. I can see the allure of Hispanics voting for a Hispanic, but Rubio looks pretty White to me unlike the vast majority of Hispanics that are Mestizos.

[Warren Dew]

I'd also move NV, MN, WI, MI, and NJ into the "neutral" cateogory from "leans Obama". Finally I'd move OH from toss up to leaning Obama.

Can you elaborate on why you came up with these?

Just for the record, I note that WI and MI have moved to neutral in the latest RCP map. There's still a lot of time before November for them to move back, of course, but I'm still pleased at the minor bit of confirmation.

[Coito ergo sum]

Rubio's eligibility is questionable, being born to two non-citizens. Also, picking a Cuban might not win the Hispanic vote because of the way Cuban refugees versus all other Hispanics are treated via immigration.

Picking a Cuban would help in Florida, though maybe not in California. Florida is a key state, though - by some accounts a swing state.

Are there that many Cubans in Florida? I kind of think most Florida Hispanics aren't Cuban, and that Cubans already lean Republican. I can see the allure of Hispanics voting for a Hispanic, but Rubio looks pretty White to me unlike the vast majority of Hispanics that are Mestizos.

This state is rife with Cubans.

[Tyrannical]

Rubio's eligibility is questionable, being born to two non-citizens. Also, picking a Cuban might not win the Hispanic vote because of the way Cuban refugees versus all other Hispanics are treated via immigration.

Picking a Cuban would help in Florida, though maybe not in California. Florida is a key state, though - by some accounts a swing state.

Are there that many Cubans in Florida? I kind of think most Florida Hispanics aren't Cuban, and that Cubans already lean Republican. I can see the allure of Hispanics voting for a Hispanic, but Rubio looks pretty White to me unlike the vast majority of Hispanics that are Mestizos.

This state is rife with Cubans.

Hmmm, only a third of Florida Hispanics are Cubans.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46170529/ns ... 8BVGVKDnTo

When you break out voters by nationality, the Cubans are still Number One but they are no longer the only game in town," said Fernand Amandi at Bendixen & Amandi, a political consulting firm in Miami that has been retained by Democratic President Barack Obama's campaign.

According to the Pew Hispanic Center, nearly a third of Florida's Hispanic voters are of Cuban descent, while 28 percent are of Puerto Rican origin. Mexican-Americans represent 9 percent of voters.

[trdsf]

Funny how the only sites I can find raising questions about the report are those that have a clear partisan position -- find me a real news site reporting this.

Since there aren't many nonpartisan news sites any more, how about a correction from the original leftist partisan source, the Washington Post:

Editor’s Note: An earlier version of this story reported that White “has long been bothered” by the Lauber incident. White later clarified in a subsequent interview that he has been disturbed by the incident since he learned of it several weeks ago from a former classmate, before being contacted by The Washington Post.

That pretty much confirms the critiques found on the rightist partisan brietbart site.

That confirms *a* critique, and only brings into question the statements of one of the five. The other four remain uncontradicted.

The single most damning piece to all this is that Romney himself couldn't rule out that he'd done it, that the accusation wasn't something that he could with clear conscience say was something he would not have done, that he must have recognized it as something he was capable of at the time.

My suspicion is that he did it and he does remember now that he's been reminded, but of course it's much safer politically for him to say "I don't remember", and I freely admit that my suspicion is unproven and likely unprovable. I've dealt with enough bullies in my time to know how that works.

[Coito ergo sum]

Rubio's eligibility is questionable, being born to two non-citizens. Also, picking a Cuban might not win the Hispanic vote because of the way Cuban refugees versus all other Hispanics are treated via immigration.

Picking a Cuban would help in Florida, though maybe not in California. Florida is a key state, though - by some accounts a swing state.

Are there that many Cubans in Florida? I kind of think most Florida Hispanics aren't Cuban, and that Cubans already lean Republican. I can see the allure of Hispanics voting for a Hispanic, but Rubio looks pretty White to me unlike the vast majority of Hispanics that are Mestizos.

This state is rife with Cubans.

Hmmm, only a third of Florida Hispanics are Cubans.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46170529/ns ... 8BVGVKDnTo

When you break out voters by nationality, the Cubans are still Number One but they are no longer the only game in town," said Fernand Amandi at Bendixen & Amandi, a political consulting firm in Miami that has been retained by Democratic President Barack Obama's campaign.

According to the Pew Hispanic Center, nearly a third of Florida's Hispanic voters are of Cuban descent, while 28 percent are of Puerto Rican origin. Mexican-Americans represent 9 percent of voters.

That wouldn't be unexpected, since Cuba is a tiny island, and "Hispanic" represents the entire western hemisphere's Spanish speaking populations in the Caribbean, Mexico, Central America and all of South America with the exception of Brazil, and maybe Suriname and French Guyana.

The fact remains, Florida is loaded with Cubans. They also tend to set themselves apart from other Hispanics, culturally, and statistically they seem to do better financially and in business than other hispanics.

[Coito ergo sum]

Funny how the only sites I can find raising questions about the report are those that have a clear partisan position -- find me a real news site reporting this.

Since there aren't many nonpartisan news sites any more, how about a correction from the original leftist partisan source, the Washington Post:

Editor’s Note: An earlier version of this story reported that White “has long been bothered” by the Lauber incident. White later clarified in a subsequent interview that he has been disturbed by the incident since he learned of it several weeks ago from a former classmate, before being contacted by The Washington Post.

That pretty much confirms the critiques found on the rightist partisan brietbart site.

That confirms *a* critique, and only brings into question the statements of one of the five. The other four remain uncontradicted.

The single most damning piece to all this is that Romney himself couldn't rule out that he'd done it, that the accusation wasn't something that he could with clear conscience say was something he would not have done, that he must have recognized it as something he was capable of at the time.

My suspicion is that he did it and he does remember now that he's been reminded, but of course it's much safer politically for him to say "I don't remember", and I freely admit that my suspicion is unproven and likely unprovable. I've dealt with enough bullies in my time to know how that works.

Couldn't rule out he had done it?

So what?

I think we all know if someone brought up a 40 plus year old allegation of a stupid prank or incident from Obama's teen years, it would not be getting the same level of import. I mean, Obama wrote himself in one of his books about a bullying incident he took part in. Now, of course, we don't hold that against him, because he remembers it. Romney, who may not remember every stupid thing he did 45 years ago, is now credited with that incident as a defining moment, infusing within the very fiber of his being.... cutting the long bangs of a male classmate in 1965 or something.

[trdsf]

That confirms *a* critique, and only brings into question the statements of one of the five. The other four remain uncontradicted.

The single most damning piece to all this is that Romney himself couldn't rule out that he'd done it, that the accusation wasn't something that he could with clear conscience say was something he would not have done, that he must have recognized it as something he was capable of at the time.

My suspicion is that he did it and he does remember now that he's been reminded, but of course it's much safer politically for him to say "I don't remember", and I freely admit that my suspicion is unproven and likely unprovable. I've dealt with enough bullies in my time to know how that works.

Couldn't rule out he had done it?

So what?

I think we all know if someone brought up a 40 plus year old allegation of a stupid prank or incident from Obama's teen years, it would not be getting the same level of import. I mean, Obama wrote himself in one of his books about a bullying incident he took part in. Now, of course, we don't hold that against him, because he remembers it. Romney, who may not remember every stupid thing he did 45 years ago, is now credited with that incident as a defining moment, infusing within the very fiber of his being.... cutting the long bangs of a male classmate in 1965 or something.

If someone asked me if I'd knocked someone down and cut his hair off thirty or so years ago, I can damned well say no without even having to think about, it simply because I know it was not and is not in my character to do that sort of thing to another person.

That Romney can't do the same I take to mean that this is a level of cruelty that Romney recognizes that he was -- not necessarily still is, but at least was -- capable of inflicting on someone else. You can call it a prank if you want; I consider it needless cruelty inflicted on another human being for the horrible "crime" of being different -- clearly, we have different definitions of what's acceptable to do unto others.

[maiforpeace]

That confirms *a* critique, and only brings into question the statements of one of the five. The other four remain uncontradicted.

The single most damning piece to all this is that Romney himself couldn't rule out that he'd done it, that the accusation wasn't something that he could with clear conscience say was something he would not have done, that he must have recognized it as something he was capable of at the time.

My suspicion is that he did it and he does remember now that he's been reminded, but of course it's much safer politically for him to say "I don't remember", and I freely admit that my suspicion is unproven and likely unprovable. I've dealt with enough bullies in my time to know how that works.

Couldn't rule out he had done it?

So what?

I think we all know if someone brought up a 40 plus year old allegation of a stupid prank or incident from Obama's teen years, it would not be getting the same level of import. I mean, Obama wrote himself in one of his books about a bullying incident he took part in. Now, of course, we don't hold that against him, because he remembers it. Romney, who may not remember every stupid thing he did 45 years ago, is now credited with that incident as a defining moment, infusing within the very fiber of his being.... cutting the long bangs of a male classmate in 1965 or something.

If someone asked me if I'd knocked someone down and cut his hair off thirty or so years ago, I can damned well say no without even having to think about, it simply because I know it was not and is not in my character to do that sort of thing to another person.

That Romney can't do the same I take to mean that this is a level of cruelty that Romney recognizes that he was -- not necessarily still is, but at least was -- capable of inflicting on someone else. You can call it a prank if you want; I consider it needless cruelty inflicted on another human being for the horrible "crime" of being different -- clearly, we have different definitions of what's acceptable to do unto others.

Bolded in red CES, since you keep on parroting this...it does make a big difference, to me, that Obama remembers it for the simple reason that acknowledging an action from the past, that was wrong, is the first step to changing that behavior and doing better. In Romney's particular case bullying with a group of people, it's even more important to me that he remembers it and responds to it sincerely since that was, essentially one of his first ventures into a leadership role. That's disturbing to me.