US Self Defence nut gets banned from the UK

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Re: US Self Defence nut gets banned from the UK

Post by mistermack » Thu May 10, 2012 8:46 am

Seraph wrote:
mistermack wrote:Cat Stevens just endorsed the Koran, which is what most muslims do. He's consistently denied calling for Rushdie's death. He simply confirmed that he supports the Koran, when some reporter pointed out that the Koran says that death is the punishment for Blasphemy.
You must be kidding. From the Wikipedia:
Kingston University

On February 21, 1989, Yusuf Islam addressed students at Kingston University in London about his conversion to Islam and was asked about the controversy in the Muslim world and the fatwa calling for Salman Rushdie's execution. He replied, "He must be killed. The Qur'an makes it clear - if someone defames the prophet, then he must die."[4]

Newspapers quickly denounced what was seen as Yusuf Islam's support for the killing of Rushdie and the next day Yusuf released a statement saying that he was not personally encouraging anybody to be a vigilante,[2] and that he was only stating that blasphemy is a capital offense according to the Qur'an.
Hypotheticals

Two months later Yusuf Islam appeared on a British television program, BBC's Hypotheticals, an occasional broadcast featuring a panel of notable guests to explore a hypothetical situation with moral, ethical and/or political dilemmas. In the episode ("A Satanic Scenario"), Islam had an exchange about the issue with the moderator and Queens Counsel Geoffrey Robertson.[5][6] Islam would later clarify the exchanges as "stupid and offensive jokes" made "in bad taste", but "part of a well-known British national trait ... dry humour on my part."[1]

Robertson: You don't think that this man deserves to die?
Y. Islam: Who, Salman Rushdie?
Robertson: Yes.
Y. Islam: Yes, yes.
Robertson: And do you have a duty to be his executioner?
Y. Islam: Uh, no, not necessarily, unless we were in an Islamic state and I was ordered by a judge or by the authority to carry out such an act - perhaps, yes.
[Some minutes later, Robertson on the subject of a protest where an effigy of the author is to be burned]
Robertson: Would you be part of that protest, Yusuf Islam, would you go to a demonstration where you knew that an effigy was going to be burned?
Y. Islam: I would have hoped that it'd be the real thing

The New York Times also reports this statement from the program: [If Rushdie turned up at my doorstep looking for help] I might ring somebody who might do more damage to him than he would like. I'd try to phone the Ayatollah Khomeini and tell him exactly where this man is.[7]
Later he claimed that he didn't really mean any of that. It was just a joke. Yeah. Right. :roll:

Anyway, the prohibition was cancelled after two years.

Edit: It should never have happened in the first place. Having nutty ideas is not sufficient reason for it. Acting on them is. Same goes for that martial arts expert. It is one thing to say physical pain and damage on attackers ought to be maximised when one defends oneself, but quite another to actually do that.
If you actually read what you post, you might not need me to explain it for you.
It's a flippant comment in a flippant program, put on for entertainment.
He made his REAL opinions perfectly clear in his statement.

Like I said, you people are just suckers for the old journalist headline trick. Take a quote out of context, and the dummies will be suitably outraged. The dummies read the headline, and the dummies buy the paper.
Then they read what REALLY happened inside, which is usually much more boring, when they have already parted with their money.
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Re: US Self Defence nut gets banned from the UK

Post by Robert_S » Thu May 10, 2012 8:52 am

Look at the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-wjxwpvqps

Doesn't look like he's joking to me.
What I've found with a few discussions I've had lately is this self-satisfaction that people express with their proffessed open mindedness. In realty it ammounts to wilful ignorance and intellectual cowardice as they are choosing to not form any sort of opinion on a particular topic. Basically "I don't know and I'm not going to look at any evidence because I'm quite happy on this fence."
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Re: US Self Defence nut gets banned from the UK

Post by mistermack » Thu May 10, 2012 8:54 am

Thumpalumpacus wrote:
mistermack wrote:Well, since the subject was Britain refusing an American entry, and I pointed out that the USA refused a Brit entry, I can't see where I've been selective. Relevant is more the word I would choose.

I just pointed out that the USA banned him, but was still happy to trade with Fatwah supporters.
Why would I have to list all the other countries that did? It would make the post very long and very irrelevant.
Britain still trades with America, no? Perfidious Albion!
You seem to have a false impression here. I don't give a fuck about Britain.
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Re: US Self Defence nut gets banned from the UK

Post by Thumpalumpacus » Thu May 10, 2012 8:58 am

mistermack wrote:You seem to have a false impression here. I don't give a fuck about Britain.
You seem to have a false impression that I'm serious. Lighten up, Francis.
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Re: US Self Defence nut gets banned from the UK

Post by Robert_S » Thu May 10, 2012 9:03 am

Thumpalumpacus wrote:
mistermack wrote:And anyway, you people in the US kept on TRADING with people who backed the fatwah. You didn't mind the oil in your car coming from fatwah supporters. You might get all high and mighty about a singer, but principles go out of the window, if it means dearer gasoline.
You're right, the US is unique in its pragmatism. No other country in the world buys oil while decrying the madrasa those purchases fund.

Yeah, spare me.
Which side would you rather have live up to its ideals mistermack?
What I've found with a few discussions I've had lately is this self-satisfaction that people express with their proffessed open mindedness. In realty it ammounts to wilful ignorance and intellectual cowardice as they are choosing to not form any sort of opinion on a particular topic. Basically "I don't know and I'm not going to look at any evidence because I'm quite happy on this fence."
-Mr P

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Re: US Self Defence nut gets banned from the UK

Post by mistermack » Thu May 10, 2012 9:04 am

Thumpalumpacus wrote:
mistermack wrote:You seem to have a false impression here. I don't give a fuck about Britain.
You seem to have a false impression that I'm serious. Lighten up, Francis.
Ok, I'm sorry I took exception to a statement made in jest.

See, everybody, it DOES happen.
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Re: US Self Defence nut gets banned from the UK

Post by mistermack » Thu May 10, 2012 9:16 am

Robert_S wrote:Look at the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-wjxwpvqps

Doesn't look like he's joking to me.
That's because you're American. Americans don't do subtle humour.

They can't even spell it.
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Re: US Self Defence nut gets banned from the UK

Post by Robert_S » Thu May 10, 2012 9:17 am

Did the man who used to be Cat Stevens ever actually denounce the fatwa?

You sound like that slow bank robber's defense lawyer. The one who said his client should be let off because his faster colleagues were able to escape the lazy policeman and therefore poor slo-mo was being penalized for his lack of athletic ability.
What I've found with a few discussions I've had lately is this self-satisfaction that people express with their proffessed open mindedness. In realty it ammounts to wilful ignorance and intellectual cowardice as they are choosing to not form any sort of opinion on a particular topic. Basically "I don't know and I'm not going to look at any evidence because I'm quite happy on this fence."
-Mr P

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Re: US Self Defence nut gets banned from the UK

Post by Robert_S » Thu May 10, 2012 9:19 am

mistermack wrote:
Robert_S wrote:Look at the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-wjxwpvqps

Doesn't look like he's joking to me.
That's because you're American. Americans don't do subtle humour.

They can't even spell it.
Can I get any non-Merkin members to vouch for this?
What I've found with a few discussions I've had lately is this self-satisfaction that people express with their proffessed open mindedness. In realty it ammounts to wilful ignorance and intellectual cowardice as they are choosing to not form any sort of opinion on a particular topic. Basically "I don't know and I'm not going to look at any evidence because I'm quite happy on this fence."
-Mr P

The Net is best considered analogous to communication with disincarnate intelligences. As any neophyte would tell you. Do not invoke that which you have no facility to banish.
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Re: US Self Defence nut gets banned from the UK

Post by Animavore » Thu May 10, 2012 9:24 am

Joking my arse. Except maybe the very last lines.
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Re: US Self Defence nut gets banned from the UK

Post by mistermack » Thu May 10, 2012 9:27 am

Nor was I joking when I said that I'd be happy to guillotine the entire royal family.
There : I've said it !! Take me away.

Just for the record, I've never denounced the fatwah either.
Rushdie SHOULD be killed. He's a boring cunt.
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Re: US Self Defence nut gets banned from the UK

Post by Thumpalumpacus » Thu May 10, 2012 9:39 am

Golly, Mack, you seem a little irritated about this whole thing. What gives?
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Re: US Self Defence nut gets banned from the UK

Post by mistermack » Thu May 10, 2012 9:57 am

Thumpalumpacus wrote:Golly, Mack, you seem a little irritated about this whole thing. What gives?
You still taking me seriously? I must try to remember an american might read what I write.
I must keep it simple.
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Re: US Self Defence nut gets banned from the UK

Post by Hermit » Thu May 10, 2012 11:14 am

mistermack wrote:
Seraph wrote:
mistermack wrote:Cat Stevens just endorsed the Koran, which is what most muslims do. He's consistently denied calling for Rushdie's death. He simply confirmed that he supports the Koran, when some reporter pointed out that the Koran says that death is the punishment for Blasphemy.
You must be kidding. From the Wikipedia:
Kingston University

On February 21, 1989, Yusuf Islam addressed students at Kingston University in London about his conversion to Islam and was asked about the controversy in the Muslim world and the fatwa calling for Salman Rushdie's execution. He replied, "He must be killed. The Qur'an makes it clear - if someone defames the prophet, then he must die."[4]

Newspapers quickly denounced what was seen as Yusuf Islam's support for the killing of Rushdie and the next day Yusuf released a statement saying that he was not personally encouraging anybody to be a vigilante,[2] and that he was only stating that blasphemy is a capital offense according to the Qur'an.
Hypotheticals

Two months later Yusuf Islam appeared on a British television program, BBC's Hypotheticals, an occasional broadcast featuring a panel of notable guests to explore a hypothetical situation with moral, ethical and/or political dilemmas. In the episode ("A Satanic Scenario"), Islam had an exchange about the issue with the moderator and Queens Counsel Geoffrey Robertson.[5][6] Islam would later clarify the exchanges as "stupid and offensive jokes" made "in bad taste", but "part of a well-known British national trait ... dry humour on my part."[1]

Robertson: You don't think that this man deserves to die?
Y. Islam: Who, Salman Rushdie?
Robertson: Yes.
Y. Islam: Yes, yes.
Robertson: And do you have a duty to be his executioner?
Y. Islam: Uh, no, not necessarily, unless we were in an Islamic state and I was ordered by a judge or by the authority to carry out such an act - perhaps, yes.
[Some minutes later, Robertson on the subject of a protest where an effigy of the author is to be burned]
Robertson: Would you be part of that protest, Yusuf Islam, would you go to a demonstration where you knew that an effigy was going to be burned?
Y. Islam: I would have hoped that it'd be the real thing

The New York Times also reports this statement from the program: [If Rushdie turned up at my doorstep looking for help] I might ring somebody who might do more damage to him than he would like. I'd try to phone the Ayatollah Khomeini and tell him exactly where this man is.[7]
Later he claimed that he didn't really mean any of that. It was just a joke. Yeah. Right. :roll:

Anyway, the prohibition was cancelled after two years.

Edit: It should never have happened in the first place. Having nutty ideas is not sufficient reason for it. Acting on them is. Same goes for that martial arts expert. It is one thing to say physical pain and damage on attackers ought to be maximised when one defends oneself, but quite another to actually do that.
If you actually read what you post, you might not need me to explain it for you.
It's a flippant comment in a flippant program, put on for entertainment.
He made his REAL opinions perfectly clear in his statement.

Like I said, you people are just suckers for the old journalist headline trick. Take a quote out of context, and the dummies will be suitably outraged. The dummies read the headline, and the dummies buy the paper.
Then they read what REALLY happened inside, which is usually much more boring, when they have already parted with their money.
Pardon? Maybe you should actually read what I post. :mrgreen: And take note of the word "later" in the Wikipedia extract, as well as my comment. The screeching sound you hear is caused by the belated and unconvincing backpedalling Yusuf Islam engaged in. Going by the demeanour he expressed his opinions about his religion and Rushdie, it seems to me he meant every word of them at the time.
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Re: US Self Defence nut gets banned from the UK

Post by Mysturji » Thu May 10, 2012 11:37 am

mistermack wrote:
Mysturji wrote: There you have it folks! The voice of ignorance, Loud and clear!
.
Yeh right. Like you would know.
Yeah, right. Like you would know.
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