War

[Tyrannical]

Good thing they were willing to sink one of their largest liners and kill a bunch of people then, weren't it.

Makes me wonder how the Germans knew about it

I'm sure the British would never have leaked that information to the Germans in hopes of drawing the US into war

Might've been the ads in the newspapers.

I forgot, what was WWI about? At least we can pretend the sequel was about the Jews.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

"It is good that war is so terrible, else we would grow too fond of it." Bobby Lee.

War is a kick, and quite addictive, while sucking furiously. Strange contradiction I will not even try to explain.

War is all fun and games, until you lose.

Or die. No big deal either way.

[Warren Dew]

Because getting the Germans to sink a ship carrying a bunch of US citizens would get the US to side with the UK. At best the UK was guilty of using them as human shields.

There was previous circumstantial evidence decades ago, but you can now cite the fact that arms have actually been found by divers in the wreck of the Lusitania:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -ship.html

So yes, the U.S. was duped into entering WWI under false pretences. That doesn't necessarily mean it was a conspiracy on the part of the UK, though; they might just have been trying to sneak the arms through, and when there was a leak and the Germans sank the arms shipment, the Brits used the opportunity as propaganda to get the U.S. to enter on their side.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Because getting the Germans to sink a ship carrying a bunch of US citizens would get the US to side with the UK. At best the UK was guilty of using them as human shields.

There was previous circumstantial evidence decades ago, but you can now cite the fact that arms have actually been found by divers in the wreck of the Lusitania:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -ship.html

So yes, the U.S. was duped into entering WWI under false pretences. That doesn't necessarily mean it was a conspiracy on the part of the UK, though; they might just have been trying to sneak the arms through, and when there was a leak and the Germans sank the arms shipment, the Brits used the opportunity as propaganda to get the U.S. to enter on their side.

Tell me how the Germans knew about the ammo?

[Blind groper]

Tell me how the Germans knew about the ammo?

Basic rule in psychology.
If two people share a secret, it is likely to be betrayed. If more share it, it is more likely to be betrayed. A rough estimate says that, on average, if 7 people share a secret, the odds of betrayal are 50%.


it was utterly inevitable that the secret would be betrayed.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Tell me how the Germans knew about the ammo?

Basic rule in psychology.
If two people share a secret, it is likely to be betrayed. If more share it, it is more likely to be betrayed. A rough estimate says that, on average, if 7 people share a secret, the odds of betrayal are 50%.


it was utterly inevitable that the secret would be betrayed.

Really? The Germans never found out about Ultra.

But let's be specific. Does anyone have a verfiable source that shows the Germans knew about the ammo?

And if they did, did they consider the danger of getting the US into the war worth stopping a few thousand rounds of machine gun bullets?

[Blind groper]

Really? The Germans never found out about Ultra.

I am sure you can tell the difference between a situation when a small group of geniuses are ensconced into a small research facility, separated from the world, and wrapped in security, versus a ship being loaded with assorted war time equipment, where literally dozens of ordinary seamen, plus all those involved in transporting it to the ship and loading it, are in a position to discover the 'secret'.

I also rather suspect that the US government were well aware of what was going on and approved.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Really? The Germans never found out about Ultra.

I am sure you can tell the difference between a situation when a small group of geniuses are ensconced into a small research facility, separated from the world, and wrapped in security, versus a ship being loaded with assorted war time equipment, where literally dozens of ordinary seamen, plus all those involved in transporting it to the ship and loading it, are in a position to discover the 'secret'.

I also rather suspect that the US government were well aware of what was going on and approved.

You don't have a clue what ULTRA was about, I see.

And if you don't have sources, you have a nice day, you hear?

[Ian]

Tell me how the Germans knew about the ammo?

Basic rule in psychology.
If two people share a secret, it is likely to be betrayed. If more share it, it is more likely to be betrayed. A rough estimate says that, on average, if 7 people share a secret, the odds of betrayal are 50%.

it was utterly inevitable that the secret would be betrayed.

This should be caveated. One secret is not the same as another; specifically, there's a huge difference between secrets and deceptions. They're the difference between information and disinformation, which is another way of saying truths and lies. I read volumes of secrets every workday, as do thousands of others, and I don't have too much worry about their exposure by people who just can't help but talk about them. But I have yet to come across a deliberate deception, something that contradicts what is publicly known. If I did, I must admit there would be some temptation to leak it, at least anonymously, and no doubt many others who knew about it would feel the same thing.

[Blind groper]

You don't have a clue what ULTRA was about, I see.

Insults, Gawdzilla?

Ultra was the British Intelligence code breaking program, based at Bletchley Park. One of their tools was the early 'computer' called Enigma. The core of Ultra was a small team of very, very smart academics, who could think in advanced mathematics.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

You don't have a clue what ULTRA was about, I see.

Insults, Gawdzilla?

Ultra was the British Intelligence code breaking program, based at Bletchley Park. One of their tools was the early 'computer' called Enigma. The core of Ultra was a small team of very, very smart academics, who could think in advanced mathematics.

Not an insult, just pointing out you're ignorant.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Good thing they were willing to sink one of their largest liners and kill a bunch of people then, weren't it.

Makes me wonder how the Germans knew about it

I'm sure the British would never have leaked that information to the Germans in hopes of drawing the US into war

Might've been the ads in the newspapers.

I forgot, what was WWI about? At least we can pretend the sequel was about the Jews.

It was about different things for different nations.

Which one did you have in mind? I'll be happy to try and help you.

[Thumpalumpacus]

You don't have a clue what ULTRA was about, I see.

Insults, Gawdzilla?

Ultra was the British Intelligence code breaking program, based at Bletchley Park. One of their tools was the early 'computer' called Enigma. The core of Ultra was a small team of very, very smart academics, who could think in advanced mathematics.

The heavy lifting by Ultra was done by scores of enlisted clerks, many of them Women's Auxiliaries, who knew exactly what they were dealing with. The geniuses weren't the ones recording possible hits on a break or noting the positions of the wheels; and the nature of the work was such that those who were recording that data knew fully well what they were doing. And again, there were scores of them.

Seizing the Enigma, by David Kahn, is a good overview of the operation, particularly as it relates to the Battle of the Atlantic.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Excellent book! And the most important thing was not how the information was gained, but how it was used.

[Blind groper]

What was WWI about?

It was a weird mix of cross-national loyalties, with alliances called in. It began with various powers in Europe, in assorted alliances, all poised to go at each other.

At the time, one of the big powers was the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Those guys were in an expansionist mood, and Serbia was a nice little country just ripe to be sucked up. The only trouble was that Serbia had, as an ally, mighty Russia. The trigger was an assassination of an Austro-Hungarian duke by Serbian terrorists. Austro-Hungary told Serbia to deliver the culprits, or else. Serbia wanted to, but, like terrorists everywhere, they disappeared. Austro-Hungary invades, and Russia moved in to fight them. Austro-Hungary called on its ally, Germany, to help, which it did. Germany decided it was a good time to expand its own borders, and invaded Belgium, Belgium had, as an ally, Britain, which was a major power in its own right. Britain roared into the battle, bringing its allies with it. Part way through the war, Russia had its revolution, and withdrew from the war, leaving Britain (and allies) in deep poop.

So in the end, Britain and its allies were in deep battle with the Austro-Hungarians and their allies, including Germany.

I should add that this is highly simplified. The whole thing was a right royal cock-up, and other people might deliver slightly different versions. Especially Gawdzilla.