thou shalt not commit logical fallacies

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thou shalt not commit logical fallacies

Post by amused » Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:14 am


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Re: thou shalt not commit logical fallacies

Post by klr » Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:35 am

Saved in triplicate :td:
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Re: thou shalt not commit logical fallacies

Post by Hermit » Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:48 am

Fast and loose with the definition. There is an overlap between rhetorical tricks and subterfuges on one hand and logical fallacies on the other, but a list of each is not identical. An ad hominem, for example, is not a logical fallacy, and the gambler's fallacy is not usually employed as a rhetorical trick or subterfuge.

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Re: thou shalt not commit logical fallacies

Post by Svartalf » Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:30 pm

klr wrote:Saved in triplicate :td:
not in good resolution by half to be worth saving.
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Re: thou shalt not commit logical fallacies

Post by Faithfree » Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:57 pm

Svartalf wrote:
klr wrote:Saved in triplicate :td:
not in good resolution by half to be worth saving.
The various-sized PDF posters are good resolution.
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Re: thou shalt not commit logical fallacies

Post by Svartalf » Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:06 pm

:doh: saved in decent size.
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Re: thou shalt not commit logical fallacies

Post by Warren Dew » Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:49 am

Seraph wrote:Fast and loose with the definition. There is an overlap between rhetorical tricks and subterfuges on one hand and logical fallacies on the other, but a list of each is not identical. An ad hominem, for example, is not a logical fallacy, and the gambler's fallacy is not usually employed as a rhetorical trick or subterfuge.
Agreed. And "slippery slope" is not even a fallacy; if you can show that A will actually lead to bad thing B, that actually is a reason to avoid A.

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Re: thou shalt not commit logical fallacies

Post by Ian » Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:01 am

Warren Dew wrote:
Seraph wrote:Fast and loose with the definition. There is an overlap between rhetorical tricks and subterfuges on one hand and logical fallacies on the other, but a list of each is not identical. An ad hominem, for example, is not a logical fallacy, and the gambler's fallacy is not usually employed as a rhetorical trick or subterfuge.
Agreed. And "slippery slope" is not even a fallacy; if you can show that A will actually lead to bad thing B, that actually is a reason to avoid A.
It's not a fallacy when you can show that B happening is a good possibility. But when you're talking about A eventually leading to Z, it becomes a logical fallacy. I've always found slippery slopes to be feeble arguments; they tend to rely on paranoia.

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Re: thou shalt not commit logical fallacies

Post by FBM » Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:11 am

Thanks for that, amused! 8-)

I think whether or not a fallacious-sounding statement is strictly speaking a logical fallacy depends ultimately on how you're using that statement in your argument. If you base your conclusion on it, it's a fallacy. Fallacious-sounding statements used otherwise aren't actually fallacies, I think. An ad hom attack, for example, is just an attack unless it's intended to be an essential premise to proving the conclusion.

But there is also the Logical Fallacy Fallacy. Just because an argument contains a logical fallacy doesn't mean that its conclusion is wrong.
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Re: thou shalt not commit logical fallacies

Post by Tyrannical » Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:04 am

Or people forget that an appeal to authority is not a fallacy, when the authority actually is an expert.
A rational skeptic should be able to discuss and debate anything, no matter how much they may personally disagree with that point of view. Discussing a subject is not agreeing with it, but understanding it.

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Re: thou shalt not commit logical fallacies

Post by Warren Dew » Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:11 am

Tyrannical wrote:Or people forget that an appeal to authority is not a fallacy, when the authority actually is an expert.
Experts are still frequently mistaken, so it's still a fallacy.

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Re: thou shalt not commit logical fallacies

Post by Tyrannical » Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:13 am

Warren Dew wrote:
Tyrannical wrote:Or people forget that an appeal to authority is not a fallacy, when the authority actually is an expert.
Experts are still frequently mistaken, so it's still a fallacy.
No it's not.
A rational skeptic should be able to discuss and debate anything, no matter how much they may personally disagree with that point of view. Discussing a subject is not agreeing with it, but understanding it.

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Re: thou shalt not commit logical fallacies

Post by FBM » Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:19 am

My memory of undergrad Logic class isn't perfect, but I seem to recall the prof stressing that it's an appeal to irrelevant authority that's fallacious. Like Michael Jordan telling you which is the best car to buy, Lady Gaga giving musical advice, etc.
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken

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Re: thou shalt not commit logical fallacies

Post by Warren Dew » Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:21 am

FBM wrote:My memory of undergrad Logic class isn't perfect, but I seem to recall the prof stressing that it's an appeal to irrelevant authority that's fallacious. Like Michael Jordan telling you which is the best car to buy, Lady Gaga giving musical advice, etc.
Sounds like the excuse of someone with "professor" before his name.

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Re: thou shalt not commit logical fallacies

Post by trdsf » Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:27 am

That is so very saved to my hard drive. :)
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