Why French Parents are Superior

[hadespussercats]

Mai, the dining etiquette you describe for children is how my sister and I were raised.

In fact, my parents had dinner parties every Sunday night so we'd have experience setting a proper table, eating politely, and speaking withe poise to adults. We had a little wine with dinner, meat on the bone, all that you describe. I never saw a sippy cup until I started babysitting.

And my parents were vocal in their pride that we never ordered from the children's menu in restaurants.

It was lovely. Dinner parties are still my favorite. But I've got to tell you-- they didn't save anyone in my family from obesity.

I still think you are more of the exception rather than the rule for many American families today.

We went to a Vietnamese Restaurant tonight with the kids, and the same scenario repeated, in how they were treated and expected to behave.

Children are not treated at all the same way in a restaurant in the US. Restaurants in France do not have special kids menus, coloring books, crayons, fancy straws, booster chairs, nothing. As soon as the kids started acting up even a tiny bit, they were rounded up and made to hush immediately. Having worked in the restaurant business since the 70's, and as a server for 15 years, I've never seen a child given a wine glass in an American restaurant, and I have had to put up with dozens of parents who allowed their children to run roughshod under my feet while I was carrying hot food and coffee around.

I don't think we were standard. But we aren't even a bit French. As evidenced by our fatness.

I guess I'm missing what the main points are in this discussion...

[maiforpeace]

In no way am I trying to argue that the French as a whole are better parents than Americans. You should see their delinquents...they are pretty ugly too. I'm simply picking out what it is that they do differently.

I'm just saying that the practices you speak of aren't typical of the average American. The dinner party and your parents. The impression I've gotten from you is that they were kind of bohemians of their time, please correct me if I'm wrong, so they would have done things a little differently.

And there is no absolutely one American practice of child rearing, they vary hugely. The Tiger Mother is essentially an American, even though the roots of her child-rearing practices are Chinese...talk about a vivid contrast to "Bringing Up Bebé".

[hadespussercats]

In no way am I trying to argue that the French as a whole are better parents than Americans. You should see their delinquents...they are pretty ugly too. I'm simply picking out what it is that they do differently.

I'm just saying that the practices you speak of aren't typical of the average American. The dinner party and your parents. The impression I've gotten from you is that they were kind of bohemians of their time, please correct me if I'm wrong, so they would have done things a little differently.

And there is no absolutely one American practice of child rearing, they vary hugely. The Tiger Mother is essentially an American, even though the roots of her child-rearing practices are Chinese...talk about a vivid contrast to "Bringing Up Bebé".

I gotcha. And yes, my parents were not... normal.

It's interesting to hear how similar my upbringing (in that respect, at least ) was to how French children are being raised now.

I feel a little... yes, I think guilty is the word, though it galls me... I feel a little guilty that Sprog is unlikely to have that sort of experience. Our social life is just too different from my folks', and J's background is different, too.

Hopefully we'll replace that with other good experiences.

[maiforpeace]

This I have no doubt of...the sprog is one of the luckiest kids on the planet to have you for a parent.

[hadespussercats]

I wish we could go to France!

[maiforpeace]

I wish we could go to France!

As a parent, I wouldn't blame you a bit...here's another reason why French parents are superior (I hope you get my gist of this now, it's not because they are innately so)...it's because they're treated like human beings as parents.

My cousin's are what I would consider to be average, middle class French.

They can afford:

Between the two cousins, and three other families they all share a housekeeper. She comes twice a week and does all the basics...bathrooms, kitchen, all the floors and dusting, and ironing, about four hours a week.

My cousin's kids are in school Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday from 8:30am until 4 pm.

After school daycare, connected directly through the school system but in a totally separate facility geared to be more comfortable and play oriented, which is age specific, is available from 4 pm until 7 pm every school day, and all day on Wednesdays. You can use this care as much as you want, every day and all day Wednesday. For the entire school year it costs $170.00 per child.

The average American parent is expected to do all the housework, and in regards to the availability of quality daycare at that price?

Socialism just sucks, doesn't it.

[Bella Fortuna]

I got a raw deal!

[maiforpeace]

I got a raw deal!

You and tons of other American parents.

[Seabass]

I got a raw deal!

You and tons of other American parents.

I pay $120/mo for our housekeeper. Seems pretty reasonable to me. How much cheaper is it in France? Are you telling me the French have socialized housecleaning?

The French are obviously subsidizing daycare, so while French parents may pay less at the point of purchase, they are still paying for it through higher taxes, no? Moreover, while some things are cheaper in France, some other things will be cheaper in the U.S. So for example, a parent in the States might have her daycare costs offset by lower gas prices.

But even if I accept the claim that French parents have it better and easier than their American counterparts, don't American parents still have it better than most? We westerners have a tendency to be a bit spoiled and forget we have it a hell of a lot easier than most of the world. And while it's true that certain countries do certain things better than others, if you consider the big picture, we first-worlders are pretty damn fortunate overall. I mean, you can do a lot worse than the U.S.

This looks like another case of the left-ish tendency to fixate on negatives while ignoring positives. If you expect and demand the absolute best of everything in every aspect of life, you are only setting yourself up for disappointment.

[Bella Fortuna]

Hell, for an extra $120 a month I'd clean someone's house.

[Svartalf]

Hell, for an extra $120 a month I'd clean someone's house.

You wouldn't mine...

Of course, I wouldn't let a stranger come inside and putter around my things in the first place... but cleaning here is something, because I got plenty of stuff lying around and it has to be displaced and put back where it was.

[hadespussercats]

I got a raw deal!

You and tons of other American parents.

I pay $120/mo for our housekeeper. Seems pretty reasonable to me. How much cheaper is it in France? Are you telling me the French have socialized housecleaning?

The French are obviously subsidizing daycare, so while French parents may pay less at the point of purchase, they are still paying for it through higher taxes, no? Moreover, while some things are cheaper in France, some other things will be cheaper in the U.S. So for example, a parent in the States might have her daycare costs offset by lower gas prices.

But even if I accept the claim that French parents have it better and easier than their American counterparts, don't American parents still have it better than most? We westerners have a tendency to be a bit spoiled and forget we have it a hell of a lot easier than most of the world. And while it's true that certain countries do certain things better than others, if you consider the big picture, we first-worlders are pretty damn fortunate overall. I mean, you can do a lot worse than the U.S.

This looks like another case of the left-ish tendency to fixate on negatives while ignoring positives. If you expect and demand the absolute best of everything in every aspect of life, you are only setting yourself up for disappointment.

Sounds like the French have decided as a society to value certain amenities for families to be able to live in a certain way, and everyone pays in to support that.

I've got to say, it sounds good to me. But then, it would, wouldn't it?

[Svartalf]

Drop Jon and marry me...

[Warren Dew]

The French are obviously subsidizing daycare, so while French parents may pay less at the point of purchase, they are still paying for it through higher taxes, no? Moreover, while some things are cheaper in France, some other things will be cheaper in the U.S. So for example, a parent in the States might have her daycare costs offset by lower gas prices.

In many U.S. schools you can often get the same amount of coverage from school plus after school activities.

[Bella Fortuna]

The French are obviously subsidizing daycare, so while French parents may pay less at the point of purchase, they are still paying for it through higher taxes, no? Moreover, while some things are cheaper in France, some other things will be cheaper in the U.S. So for example, a parent in the States might have her daycare costs offset by lower gas prices.

In many U.S. schools you can often get the same amount of coverage from school plus after school activities.

I must live in the wrong US!