we're fighting for the women?

[Rum]

It is to be hoped that there has been a degree of 'consciousness raising' over the last decade or more and that will pay off in due course which will slowly build. Its not much but its better than nothing.

Is it worth the money and the dead? Not a chance.

The bigger picture is that it shows the futility of nation building.

Of course, though, I'm not even sure if that is what was being attempted.

I am not suggesting it was worth the lives (sod the money). But I have seen attitudes to the rights of women change immeasurably in places, not least here in the UK, but more dramatically in Hong Kong as I grew up. The traditional Chinese attitude was almost as conservative as the Taliban's - well perhaps not quite as conservative, but getting there. Exposure to more liberal attitudes changed that radically over three or four decades.

What do you mean "sod the money"? Are you joking? Here in canada, instead of fighting this useless war for a decade that money could have been used for so many things, to help people in so many ways. Sod the money? Someone needs to be held responsible for this fiasco. Any business or government agency that simply wastes, throws away billions of dollars, needs to do some serious explaining. You think that the attitudes towards women has changed because of the occupation of Afghanistan? Really? I mean seriously wtf?

You do love to pick a fight don't you. The 'sod the money' was in comparison to the lives.

[sandinista]

Lets face it. This war was about one thing. George Bush's pride.
Osama Bin Laden kicked America's ass, well and truly, while George W was in the White House.

His ego couldn't take that, to go down in history with that on his record.
He had to get Osama, so he had to invade Afghanistan.

Anything else is just add-ons that people thought of later. Nobody cared that much about Afghan women's rights before 9/11.

With the vast waste of tax payers money and the waste of thousands of lives this whole debacle needs to be investigated and the real reasons for the invasion must be made public and those responsible held accountable. If revenge was the only reason, this has been one of the biggest crimes of all time. Though I find it hard to feel bad for dead soldiers who volunteered to fight this shit storm, I do feel bad for their families who have to live the fact that their sons and daughters died for nothing. They are not hero's they didn't accomplish anything, simply pawns. Sad, pathetic.

You do love to pick a fight don't you. The 'sod the money' was in comparison to the lives.

No, I really don't (like to pick a fight). Even in comparison to the lives lost, the money could have been used to save lives.

[Rum]

Of course it could but frankly comparing lives and money is just crass.

[sandinista]

again, not if the money is in such a vast amount that it could have saved as many lives as were lost. Not crass at all.

[Rum]

again, not if the money is in such a vast amount that it could have saved as many lives as were lost. Not crass at all.

Now you are on to moral conundrum territory - if you had to let go of a lever that would mean the death of a child but would save an adult. Or two adults - or two children..etc..

[sandinista]

again, not if the money is in such a vast amount that it could have saved as many lives as were lost. Not crass at all.

Now you are on to moral conundrum territory - if you had to let go of a lever that would mean the death of a child but would save an adult. Or two adults - or two children..etc..

Not at all, I'm saying it was a waste of money and lives, period. You are the one saying "sod the money", I disagree.

[Audley Strange]

The quick solution is to shoot all the women and children.

[Warren Dew]

Lets face it. This war was about one thing. George Bush's pride.

That mus be why Obama escalated the Afghanistan intervention so much during his administration.

[mistermack]

Lets face it. This war was about one thing. George Bush's pride.

That mus be why Obama escalated the Afghanistan intervention so much during his administration.

Bush started the war. Obama inherited it.
How could Obama have any influence on the war starting?

His hands are tied now, he has to try to get out with some sort of dignity. Escalating it was the advice he got for how to speed that up.

[laklak]

GTFO, now.

[sandinista]

Lets face it. This war was about one thing. George Bush's pride.

That mus be why Obama escalated the Afghanistan intervention so much during his administration.

Bush started the war. Obama inherited it.
How could Obama have any influence on the war starting?

His hands are tied now, he has to try to get out with some sort of dignity. Escalating it was the advice he got for how to speed that up.

There is no chance for any kind of dignity in this situation. An utter criminal disaster.

[Warren Dew]

Bush started the war. Obama inherited it.
How could Obama have any influence on the war starting?

His hands are tied now, he has to try to get out with some sort of dignity. Escalating it was the advice he got for how to speed that up.

"We had to destroy the village to save it", eh? I guess Obama has got classic Johnson style foreign policy down pat.

[Gallstones]

We who?

[Warren Dew]

"We" the administration. "We had to destroy the village to save it" is a classic description of Lyndon Johnson's policy in Vietnam. Mistermack's excuse for Obama's policy is similar and makes just as little sense: "we had to escalate the war to stop it."

[Robert_S]

We have to be able to tell ourselves that all the lives and money we spent were worth it.