Predictions: Who will be the GOP Candidate?

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Svartalf
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Re: Predictions: Who will be the GOP Candidate?

Post by Svartalf » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:03 pm

Coito ergo sum wrote: So because Romney is a millionaire, then the US is a place best described as "a place any millionaire can become President."

It would be more egalitarian, I suspect, if we had an aristocracy of landed gentry and titles to boot, that way the poor would be guaranteed to occupy the highest positions in the land.
OK, so, what were the personal fortunes of the 40+ presidents you've had? How many were not part of the 5% (or even the 1%) before they were elected?

Everybody knows lincoln's rag to riches story, point is, he was damn wealthy by the time he was anybody in politics. Romney is a millionaire, so were the bushes, I guess Clinton was a hotshot lawyer before getting into politics, Reagan was an actor and union head... not the brink of poverty, Carter was an old style planter, Kennedy's dad had his prohibition era and mob money...
I suspect the poorest president since last war might have been Eisenhower... and that's assumming he did not have a personal fortune (from family or marriage) beside the fact that he was a decorated general.
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Re: Predictions: Who will be the GOP Candidate?

Post by Coito ergo sum » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:20 pm

Svartalf wrote:
Coito ergo sum wrote: So because Romney is a millionaire, then the US is a place best described as "a place any millionaire can become President."

It would be more egalitarian, I suspect, if we had an aristocracy of landed gentry and titles to boot, that way the poor would be guaranteed to occupy the highest positions in the land.
OK, so, what were the personal fortunes of the 40+ presidents you've had? How many were not part of the 5% (or even the 1%) before they were elected?
I went through some of them in my previous post. Most US Presidents were born middle class or even poor. Clinton, for example, was born poor, and wasn't hugely wealthy as Governor of Arkansas. He left the Presidency millions of dollars in debt, and made most of his money after he left office.

Reagan was born middle class, and he earned some good money as an actor in the 1940s and 1950s, although that was long before actors were really hugely wealthy like they are now. Then he was head of the Screen Actors Guild until he went into politics and became governor or California.

Obama did not grow up wealthy.

The Bushes did, of course, as did Kennedy and the Roosevelts.

Ford was middle class.

What more do you want?
Svartalf wrote:
Everybody knows lincoln's rag to riches story, point is, he was damn wealthy by the time he was anybody in politics.
Not true. In his day, lawyers made good money, but not huge money.
Svartalf wrote:
Romney is a millionaire, so were the bushes,
Yes.
Svartalf wrote:
I guess Clinton was a hotshot lawyer before getting into politics,
You guess wrong. He hardly practiced, if at all. He taught law at the University of Arkansas and went into private practice in 1982, but immediately won the race for Governor of Arkansas.

You think law professors in Arkansas made tons of money and were hot shots?
Svartalf wrote: Reagan was an actor and union head... not the brink of poverty,
Of course not. He was born middle class and did o.k. afterwards.

It's not surprising that people with the acumen to become President can also manage to earn a living.

What are you expecting? Unemployed shop clerks playing Playstation as President of the US?


Svartalf wrote:
Carter was an old style planter,
I listed Carter as among the wealthy, above. Although he was largely self-made - much to be admired. An entrepreneur from a very young age.
Svartalf wrote:
Kennedy's dad had his prohibition era and mob money...
Already listed him as among the wealthy too. Did you read my post?
Svartalf wrote: I suspect the poorest president since last war might have been Eisenhower... and that's assumming he did not have a personal fortune (from family or marriage) beside the fact that he was a decorated general.
He made a General's salary, and is another one that makes my point, along with Truman the hat maker and tailor. Lyndon Johnson, however, was of the lowest birth of all Presidents in the 20th century, I believe. He was not a rich man.

We've had some wealthy, and many that were not extremely wealthy even when elected Prez. And, we had many that were of low birth and worked their way up. That is a good thing.

I wouldn't expect any country - and we don't find any country - in which it is common that those who are failures in life can somehow grab the reigns of power. What happens in your country? Poor people running the show, are they? :fp:

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Re: Predictions: Who will be the GOP Candidate?

Post by Coito ergo sum » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:27 pm

Clinton Huxley wrote:I'm not talking about British Prime Ministers and their social class, feel free to start a thread about that.....

Just to check:-

Romney - Millionaire
Santorum - Millionaire (if only just)
Gingrich - Millionaire
Ron Paul - Millionaire

So you agree that the next Republican presidential hopeful will definitely be a millionaire?
I'll talk about it here, if I like. I need not start another thread. You derailed this thread --- which is about "Predictions: Who Will be the GOP Candidate" and not "what are the balance sheets of the candidates" or isn't the US such a sucky and unfair country because only rich people become President. On what basis do you claim the right to divert into a new topic, but I can't likewise divert into a new topic?

Yes, the next Republican presidential candidate will be a millionaire, as will the next Democratic candidate. However, it takes a monumental leap of illogic to get to the assertion you made above when you started down this derail.

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Re: Predictions: Who will be the GOP Candidate?

Post by Svartalf » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:28 pm

You know what CES, in the US, new money gets higher than anywhere else... low birth is no obstacle if you make a ton of green.
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Re: Predictions: Who will be the GOP Candidate?

Post by Coito ergo sum » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:33 pm

Svartalf wrote:You know what CES, in the US, new money gets higher than anywhere else... low birth is no obstacle if you make a ton of green.
I couldn't have put it better myself. Nice compliment.

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Re: Predictions: Who will be the GOP Candidate?

Post by Svartalf » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:37 pm

Given the quality of character displayed by rags to riches self made man types, I'm not sure that it's a compliment to any country to recognize that they let such folk reach the highest stations in society and government.
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Re: Predictions: Who will be the GOP Candidate?

Post by Coito ergo sum » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:40 pm

Svartalf wrote:Given the quality of character displayed by rags to riches self made man types, I'm not sure that it's a compliment to any country to recognize that they let such folk reach the highest stations in society and government.
Yes, better to stifle those of low birth. That'll keep things in order. Gotcha.

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Re: Predictions: Who will be the GOP Candidate?

Post by Warren Dew » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:40 pm

Svartalf wrote:Everybody knows lincoln's rag to riches story, point is, he was damn wealthy by the time he was anybody in politics. Romney is a millionaire, so were the bushes, I guess Clinton was a hotshot lawyer before getting into politics, Reagan was an actor and union head... not the brink of poverty, Carter was an old style planter, Kennedy's dad had his prohibition era and mob money...
Not to mention Obama was already a millionaire before he ran for president.

The only way we'll have a non-millionaire in the White House next year is if some non-millionaire somehow gets the Republican nomination at a contested convention and wins the general election.

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Re: Predictions: Who will be the GOP Candidate?

Post by Clinton Huxley » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:49 pm

As the sign says, you don't have to be a millionaire to be president here but it helps
"I grow old … I grow old …
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled"

AND MERRY XMAS TO ONE AND All!

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Re: Predictions: Who will be the GOP Candidate?

Post by Coito ergo sum » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:51 pm

Clinton Huxley wrote:As the sign says, you don't have to be a millionaire to be president here but it helps
Shouldn't it help? :ask:

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Re: Predictions: Who will be the GOP Candidate?

Post by Clinton Huxley » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:55 pm

Coito ergo sum wrote:
Clinton Huxley wrote:As the sign says, you don't have to be a millionaire to be president here but it helps
Shouldn't it help? :ask:
Be nice if there were other competencies in the person specification
"I grow old … I grow old …
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled"

AND MERRY XMAS TO ONE AND All!

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Re: Predictions: Who will be the GOP Candidate?

Post by Coito ergo sum » Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:02 pm

Clinton Huxley wrote:
Coito ergo sum wrote:
Clinton Huxley wrote:As the sign says, you don't have to be a millionaire to be president here but it helps
Shouldn't it help? :ask:
Be nice if there were other competencies in the person specification
Well, there are, aren't there? We couldn't have a more disparate group of potential candidates, vying for the nomination of the party. Ron Paul? Newt Gingrich? Rick Santorum? Mitt Romney? They all represent some pretty distinctly different views and approaches on a variety of issues, especially Paul and Santorum.

I suppose we could make it more fair, and just let the President be elected by Members of Par...I mean Congress. Then we wouldn't have this pesky old election, we'd just vote for our Representatives and Senators and have done with it.

What would you suggest?

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Re: Predictions: Who will be the GOP Candidate?

Post by Clinton Huxley » Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:06 pm

Me, I'm no policy wonk but a competition between millionaire freaks and the billionaire puppet masters funding their campaigns is probably not what George Washington had in mind
"I grow old … I grow old …
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled"

AND MERRY XMAS TO ONE AND All!

Imagehttp://25kv.co.uk/date_counter.php?date ... 20counting!!![/img-sig]

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Re: Predictions: Who will be the GOP Candidate?

Post by Coito ergo sum » Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:16 pm

Clinton Huxley wrote:Me, I'm no policy wonk but a competition between millionaire freaks and the billionaire puppet masters funding their campaigns is probably not what George Washington had in mind
Perhaps not. Do you include the current denizen of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave in that "freak" category?

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Re: Predictions: Who will be the GOP Candidate?

Post by Clinton Huxley » Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:20 pm

Presuming you mean the white house, he seems not as disagreeable as some.
"I grow old … I grow old …
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled"

AND MERRY XMAS TO ONE AND All!

Imagehttp://25kv.co.uk/date_counter.php?date ... 20counting!!![/img-sig]

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