Black Bloc Tactics Contaminating Occupy Oakland

[Audley Strange]

LIE!

[Coito ergo sum]

Come one! Come all! Leave your parents' basement, camp in the park, shit and piss in public, annoy the hard-working residents of the area, and piss and moan for other people to give you free stuff!





The sign wasn't big enough for "Dear 1%, we fell asleep on the couch for a while; just woke up; when is mom making dinner?"

[sandinista]

Come one! Come all! Leave your parents' basement, camp in the park, shit and piss in public, annoy the hard-working residents of the area, and piss and moan for other people to give you free stuff!

parents basement? So, I suppose you believe anyone who speaks up for social change is...what? living in their parents basement? Not even sure what kind of point your trying to make, or are you simply using insults because you have nothing intelligent to say. I would guess that's the case.

[Coito ergo sum]

Come one! Come all! Leave your parents' basement, camp in the park, shit and piss in public, annoy the hard-working residents of the area, and piss and moan for other people to give you free stuff!

parents basement? So, I suppose you believe a lot of occupy wall streeters anyone who speaks up for social changeis...what? are very unpalatable people ..... who seem like folks living in their parents basement? Not even sure what kind of point your trying to make, or are you simply using insults because you have nothing intelligent to say. I would guess that's the case.

Point? The point is that now that it isn't cold these fairweather douchebags are rattling their baby-bottles again, threatening to come out of the woodwork, clog traffic, annoy decent hardworking folks, pee and shit in the park (and then demand that someone bring them free port-a-potties), and skip their college classes so they can demand that the decent hardworking folks buy them free birth control, pay for the college education that they are skipping while getting high in the park, and clamour endlessly for other free stuff.

I thought they had gone away, but it looks like they're making threats now.

[sandinista]

so you have no point other than painting millions of people with the same brush. Sounds familiar.

[Coito ergo sum]

so you have no point other than painting millions of people with the same brush. Sounds familiar.

Not millions. Just the OWS-ers threatening to interfere with city services and throw shit at people. I'm getting the feeling from their publications that this year they'll start breaking windows, like their anti-globalist protester cousins who toss bricks through hard working folks' windows.

[sandinista]

so you have no point other than painting millions of people with the same brush. Sounds familiar.

Not millions. Just the OWS-ers threatening to interfere with city services and throw shit at people. I'm getting the feeling from their publications that this year they'll start breaking windows, like their anti-globalist protester cousins who toss bricks through hard working folks' windows.

the "ows-ers" and affiliates do number in the millions.

[Coito ergo sum]

so you have no point other than painting millions of people with the same brush. Sounds familiar.

Not millions. Just the OWS-ers threatening to interfere with city services and throw shit at people. I'm getting the feeling from their publications that this year they'll start breaking windows, like their anti-globalist protester cousins who toss bricks through hard working folks' windows.

the "ows-ers" and affiliates do number in the millions.

I wasn't referring to affiliates. i realize that on the very surface skin of the movement some folks, if they don't pay too close attention, can sympathize with some of the things that they claim to be in favor of -- fairness, economic opportunity, and the end of cronyism, etc. But, beneath the veneer, there is an ugly underbelly of anti-captilist, anti-social, anti-just about everything except "gimme gimme gimme gimme." They're pro that.

The spokespeople and prominent personages in the movement have larger agendas that aren't just about fairness and justice, and they're using economic dissatisfaction to advance those agendas.

[sandinista]

beneath the veneer, there is an ugly underbelly of anti-captilist, anti-social, anti-just about everything except "gimme gimme gimme gimme." They're pro that.

Of course the "movement" is anti capitalist. That is no "underbelly" and there is nothing ugly about it. There is no aspect of, whatever "gimme gimme gimme gimme" means. What do you even mean by that, I have never heard that from anyone involved.

The spokespeople and prominent personages in the movement have larger agendas that aren't just about fairness and justice, and they're using economic dissatisfaction to advance those agendas.

such as? You're saying there is a shadow conspiracy of some sort?

[Coito ergo sum]

beneath the veneer, there is an ugly underbelly of anti-captilist, anti-social, anti-just about everything except "gimme gimme gimme gimme." They're pro that.

Of course the "movement" is anti capitalist. That is no "underbelly" and there is nothing ugly about it.

That's not the snake-oil they try to sell the masses. Anytime discussions and media reports involve OWS, the idea that they are anti-capitalist is poo-pooed as if it is the most ridiculous assertion.

Much of the support from the "millions" you suggest are part of the movement comes from folks who think that all they're trying to do is fix some stuff that is broken, not remake it into something new.

There is no aspect of, whatever "gimme gimme gimme gimme" means. What do you even mean by that, I have never heard that from anyone involved.

You just have to read the signs they have going, and listen to what they say. It's all about free stuff. "I decided to go to college and incur $150,000 in debt to get a social sciences degree that I knew in advance couldn't possibly net me a W-2 paycheck of more than $2000 per month, so I want my college loan debt forgiven. I am the 99%."

The spokespeople and prominent personages in the movement have larger agendas that aren't just about fairness and justice, and they're using economic dissatisfaction to advance those agendas.

such as? You're saying there is a shadow conspiracy of some sort?

Not so nefarious as that. Just what you've admitted to. It's anti-capitalist at bottom. Most of the supporters ignore that or are in denial. Like I said, it's just the very surface skin of the movement that is glossied up to be palatable to the average idiot whose just pissed he has to pay back money he borrowed of his own accord.

[sandinista]

That's not the snake-oil they try to sell the masses. Anytime discussions and media reports involve OWS, the idea that they are anti-capitalist is poo-pooed as if it is the most ridiculous assertion.

Really, I've seen no such thing.

Much of the support from the "millions" you suggest are part of the movement comes from folks who think that all they're trying to do is fix some stuff that is broken, not remake it into something new.

sure, some are reformists, no doubt. Some are not. So what?

You just have to read the signs they have going, and listen to what they say. It's all about free stuff. "I decided to go to college and incur $150,000 in debt to get a social sciences degree that I knew in advance couldn't possibly net me a W-2 paycheck of more than $2000 per month, so I want my college loan debt forgiven. I am the 99%."

Because a post secondary education should be free. That's not so radical, it's an idea that would be a great benefit to society. It also wouldn't be "free", it would be paid for with taxes. The same way that taxes pay for cops, fire departments, elementary schools, the military, and health care. I would support free post secondary education. I don't see that as being about "free stuff" any more than having a "free" military or fire department.

Not so nefarious as that. Just what you've admitted to. It's anti-capitalist at bottom. Most of the supporters ignore that or are in denial.

what makes you say that? "most of"? How do you know, have you seen or done a poll? Are you getting your information from corporate news networks or state news sources? Where are you getting this from?

[Ian]

Sandi - Coito's just projecting what he wants to believe about OWS. I suggest ignoring it.

[Seth]

Because a post secondary education should be free.

Nothing is free. Somebody has to pay for it. What you're actually saying is that someone other than the person receiving the benefit should be forced to pay for the benefit which may not benefit them much, if at all.

That's not so radical, it's an idea that would be a great benefit to society.

Would it? I think it would be a tremendous waste of money and effort to give people who aren't willing to work for the privilege and value they are obtaining something of such tremendous value. Doing so makes the education worth less (like a medical "degree" from Russia) and over time makes it worthless, as we are seeing already with diplomas issued from universities who will accept anyone and graduate everyone no matter how illiterate, innumerate or plainly stupid they are.

College educations should be reserved only for the best and brightest, who have to compete hard to get into college and have to maintain a high academic standard to stay there, and who have to pay for it themselves so that they will be motivated to actualize their education and be more productive than your average high-school graduate who's flipping burgers or cleaning toilets for a living. To whom much is given, much should be expected, and that loan burden is strong incentive to make productive use of the education they obtained.

It also wouldn't be "free", it would be paid for with taxes.

Which means that all the burger-flippers and toilet-cleaners of society will be paying for some slut of a party girl who has the audacity and arrogance to tell Congress that she wants to have a right to fuck away three thousand dollars worth of public money while going to law school (also on the public's dime) by demanding that the public pay for her contraceptives while she's slaving away sucking cock and taking it up the ass rather than hitting the books and earning the degree we're paying for. Fuck that.

The same way that taxes pay for cops, fire departments, elementary schools, the military, and health care. I would support free post secondary education. I don't see that as being about "free stuff" any more than having a "free" military or fire department.

Thing is, we need firemen, cops and the military, and elementary and high school are there to prepare the working class for their life as working class stiffs cleaning toilets and flipping burgers. They don't need more education than that, and we certainly don't want to provide them with a free college education, which will just give them an excuse to bitch that they are underemployed when in fact they are overqualified for what they are suited to do, which is dig ditches and assemble cars and suchlike.

So, we don't need everyone to be entitled to a college degree because that not only gives people false expectations and hopes about their future, but it's a waste of educational resources in most cases because most people don't need a college education, they need vocational and trade education. We need plumbers and electricians, we don't need even one single more Liberal Arts college graduate, ever, anywhere.

Those who really want a college education, and are suited for it as determined by testing and competition for coveted places in prestigious colleges, and are willing to invest not only their time, but their own money and future obtaining a college education that they will then use to be more productive and of greater value to society than the burger-flipper or auto assembler are the ones who should get the lion's share of valuable advanced educational resources, not the hoi-polloi who won't make use of it and will fuck and drink their way through four years of liberal arts college at the public's expense.

Screw them, they just need a short course in how to change linens and scrub toilets at the local Howard Johnson's or wash dishes at the local restaurant, or pick onions and plant tomatoes, because that's all they are really suited for, and we need them in that capacity, and we need them to be satisfied in that capacity, not yearning to exploit their knowledge of Etruscan pottery art as they pluck chickens and roll asphalt.

College is for the best, those willing to work a lifetime to repay the investment society makes in giving them that education, and loading them up with debt is a great way to make sure they persevere and prosper.

[Seth]

so you have no point other than painting millions of people with the same brush. Sounds familiar.

Not millions. Just the OWS-ers threatening to interfere with city services and throw shit at people. I'm getting the feeling from their publications that this year they'll start breaking windows, like their anti-globalist protester cousins who toss bricks through hard working folks' windows.

Too late, they're already doing all that, and have been since beginning.

[sandinista]

Nothing is free. Somebody has to pay for it. What you're actually saying is that someone other than the person receiving the benefit should be forced to pay for the benefit which may not benefit them much, if at all.

? That would pretty much equate everything. I have no kids, I pay for elementary school, I have never phoned the cops, I pay for them...never had a fire, rarely go to the doctor, have never supported a war canaduh has been involved in. I still pay for all of those things. What your saying is we shouldn't, regardless? Every person for themselves? Not the kind of society I would like to live in at all, especially considering no one starts on an even playing field. That sounds ludicrous. I suppose if everyone began life at the same staring point. Even still...

Would it? I think it would be a tremendous waste of money and effort to give people who aren't willing to work for the privilege and value they are obtaining something of such tremendous value.

willing to work? What does that mean? Some of the poorest people on the planet work the hardest yet could never afford a university education. So, yes, it would be "worth it". A highly educated population (I mean, lets face it, even with a free university education, not all people would go that route or finish a degree) would be beneficial to the whole society.

Thing is, we need firemen, cops and the military

Not so, at least not in the current amount. We could do with far less cops and military.

College is for the best, those willing to work a lifetime to repay the investment society makes in giving them that education, and loading them up with debt is a great way to make sure they persevere and prosper.

no, college is for everyone who is willing to work hard enough to earn a degree.