Killing Babies?

[Tyrannical]

I just wish it was easier to abort post-birth undesirables, for the greater good of course.

Retroactive birth control is a very tempting option at times.

There was an episode of "The Outer Limits" (think twilight zone) where abortion was legal up to 13 years.
Woman took her incorrigible son to a councilor, and after a discussion of his constant bad behavior tossed him out a window.

Maybe all parents should show their children that episode

[FBM]

I think we should just let Darwin take care of it, like God intended.

[amused]

I say we kill all the Libertarian babies because it's what they would have wanted us to do!

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I say we kill all the Libertarian babies because it's what they would have wanted us to do!

If they hadn't wanted to be aborted they should have gotten off their ass and done something about, instead of waiting for the government to coddle them.

[Drewish]

Naw, we should continue subsidizing all the poor babies who tend to grow up religious and wanting more hand outs. That will ensure a bright future.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Naw, we should continue subsidizing all the poor babies who tend to grow up religious and wanting more hand outs. That will ensure a bright future.

More cost-efficient to just ignore them. They won't be problem if they do grow up hungry, angry and disturbed, we need more people like that.

[Drewish]

Naw, we should continue subsidizing all the poor babies who tend to grow up religious and wanting more hand outs. That will ensure a bright future.

More cost-efficient to just ignore them. They won't be problem if they do grow up hungry, angry and disturbed, we need more people like that.

You know, at some point the personal attacks just can't possibly be about humor, but are in fact personal. Go fuck yourself old man.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Naw, we should continue subsidizing all the poor babies who tend to grow up religious and wanting more hand outs. That will ensure a bright future.

More cost-efficient to just ignore them. They won't be problem if they do grow up hungry, angry and disturbed, we need more people like that.

You know, at some point the personal attacks just can't possibly be about humor, but are in fact personal. Go fuck yourself old man.

Just as snarky as you, my friend. And it wasn't meant to be personal. You can take it that way if you wish, of course. Have fun either way.

[hadespussercats]

There are all sorts of things that can make someone a horrible person that aren't against the law.

I agree, like allowing a being to exist in a state of agony and torment either or both physically and mentally just so someone can feel good about themselves and thats not even getting into the sense of expectations they have that everyone else should find their sickening cruelty somehow noble.

Are you saying that's what I want?

or are you just using my statement as a leaping-off point for your own?

If it's the former, there's been a misunderstanding somewhere.

No no Hades, I'm not saying that's what you want, I'm saying that if killing a live baby automatically (as you suggest) makes one a horrible person then so is sustaining the lives of people with no quality of value of life, who are essentially just beings of suffering, just to appease some archaic and arbitrary sense of morality. In fact I would possibly suggest that anyone who terminated their child post partum would feel like a horrible person, whereas those monsters who keeps them living for their own entertainment actually think they are good and noble and worthy people and we treat them like such rather than revile them and what's more they expect everyone to appreciate their burdens.

Now, I am not talking about people with slight handicaps which might decrease their quality of life. I'm talking about the cases where the brain has not formed properly so they are in a vegetative state or the spine is so misshapen that ever second they endure is pain.

Ah. Well, IIRC, my interchange with Andrew at that point was regarding parents who didn't want to care for a baby discovered at birth to be disabled.

That's a different issue from euthanasia. Within reasonable and practical bounds, I support euthanasia.

Although, in the case you present-- what about pain management? i.e.- morphine.

[Pappa]

Naw, we should continue subsidizing all the poor babies who tend to grow up religious and wanting more hand outs. That will ensure a bright future.

More cost-efficient to just ignore them. They won't be problem if they do grow up hungry, angry and disturbed, we need more people like that.

You know, at some point the personal attacks just can't possibly be about humor, but are in fact personal. Go fuck yourself old man.

Andrew, this is a reminder to please play nice as per our rules.

[eXcommunicate]

Naw, we should continue subsidizing all the poor babies who tend to grow up religious and wanting more hand outs. That will ensure a bright future.

More cost-efficient to just ignore them. They won't be problem if they do grow up hungry, angry and disturbed, we need more people like that.

You know, at some point the personal attacks just can't possibly be about humor, but are in fact personal. Go fuck yourself old man.

Just as snarky as you, my friend. And it wasn't meant to be personal. You can take it that way if you wish, of course. Have fun either way.

I have noticed with libertarians and Objectivists that they think everything is about them.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

[Audley Strange]

There are all sorts of things that can make someone a horrible person that aren't against the law.

I agree, like allowing a being to exist in a state of agony and torment either or both physically and mentally just so someone can feel good about themselves and thats not even getting into the sense of expectations they have that everyone else should find their sickening cruelty somehow noble.

Are you saying that's what I want?

or are you just using my statement as a leaping-off point for your own?

If it's the former, there's been a misunderstanding somewhere.

No no Hades, I'm not saying that's what you want, I'm saying that if killing a live baby automatically (as you suggest) makes one a horrible person then so is sustaining the lives of people with no quality of value of life, who are essentially just beings of suffering, just to appease some archaic and arbitrary sense of morality. In fact I would possibly suggest that anyone who terminated their child post partum would feel like a horrible person, whereas those monsters who keeps them living for their own entertainment actually think they are good and noble and worthy people and we treat them like such rather than revile them and what's more they expect everyone to appreciate their burdens.

Now, I am not talking about people with slight handicaps which might decrease their quality of life. I'm talking about the cases where the brain has not formed properly so they are in a vegetative state or the spine is so misshapen that ever second they endure is pain.

Ah. Well, IIRC, my interchange with Andrew at that point was regarding parents who didn't want to care for a baby discovered at birth to be disabled.

That's a different issue from euthanasia. Within reasonable and practical bounds, I support euthanasia.

Although, in the case you present-- what about pain management? i.e.- morphine.

Well, though this probably would be utterly denied (rightly so) by the medical community I've seen quite a few terminally ill patients of all ages been given just that little too much di-morphine "accidently". However like all opiates, one builds up a tolerance to them so quickly that the dosage between pain management and overdose can be risky.

But really, what would be the point? It really doesn't benefit them long term as individuals and you are putting a huge burden of care on both parents and society at large.

Also. It seemed that you were making an absolute stance when you said "killing babies is wrong" and responding "yes" to the question "does that make you a horrible person?". Obviously that is not the case, as you make evident above. However that is the reason I responded, it seemed to be your were taking what I considered, unusually, an unreasonable stance.

[hadespussercats]

I agree, like allowing a being to exist in a state of agony and torment either or both physically and mentally just so someone can feel good about themselves and thats not even getting into the sense of expectations they have that everyone else should find their sickening cruelty somehow noble.

Are you saying that's what I want?

or are you just using my statement as a leaping-off point for your own?

If it's the former, there's been a misunderstanding somewhere.

No no Hades, I'm not saying that's what you want, I'm saying that if killing a live baby automatically (as you suggest) makes one a horrible person then so is sustaining the lives of people with no quality of value of life, who are essentially just beings of suffering, just to appease some archaic and arbitrary sense of morality. In fact I would possibly suggest that anyone who terminated their child post partum would feel like a horrible person, whereas those monsters who keeps them living for their own entertainment actually think they are good and noble and worthy people and we treat them like such rather than revile them and what's more they expect everyone to appreciate their burdens.

Now, I am not talking about people with slight handicaps which might decrease their quality of life. I'm talking about the cases where the brain has not formed properly so they are in a vegetative state or the spine is so misshapen that ever second they endure is pain.

Ah. Well, IIRC, my interchange with Andrew at that point was regarding parents who didn't want to care for a baby discovered at birth to be disabled.

That's a different issue from euthanasia. Within reasonable and practical bounds, I support euthanasia.

Although, in the case you present-- what about pain management? i.e.- morphine.

Well, though this probably would be utterly denied (rightly so) by the medical community I've seen quite a few terminally ill patients of all ages been given just that little too much di-morphine "accidently". However like all opiates, one builds up a tolerance to them so quickly that the dosage between pain management and overdose can be risky.

But really, what would be the point? It really doesn't benefit them long term as individuals and you are putting a huge burden of care on both parents and society at large.

Also. It seemed that you were making an absolute stance when you said "killing babies is wrong" and responding "yes" to the question "does that make you a horrible person?". Obviously that is not the case, as you make evident above. However that is the reason I responded, it seemed to be your were taking what I considered, unusually, an unreasonable stance.

I stand by what I said. There is such a thing as the exception that proves the rule.

[Coito ergo sum]

I don't see human life as having any sort of magical value. And I don't see how saying that an unborn child doesn't qualify as a person would destroy the foundation of society or undermine the law. I don't see what this 'interest' is other than the echoes of a bronze age text and arbitrary social conditioning.

It's no less "arbitrary" than saying that personhood might begin after infancy.