Illegal abortions in the UK

[Horwood Beer-Master]

It's outright illegal in Ireland.

Abortion in general, or abortion for gender selection?
It's illegal here too... I think that by the tame the gender of the baby can be discerned, it is a bit late to arrange and abort it anyway.

Abortion in general.

Silly Catlicks.

[MrJonno]

It's outright illegal in Ireland.

Abortion in general, or abortion for gender selection?
It's illegal here too... I think that by the tame the gender of the baby can be discerned, it is a bit late to arrange and abort it anyway.

Abortion in general.

Silly Catlicks.

?
Does wonders for the profits of private hospitals in the UK through, anyone know if the NHS will do it for free?

[Svartalf]

I am curious as to where this originates, if it turns out to be true.

We have a significant South Asian population here and male children are often valued rather more than girl children in the older 'tradition'. In India abandoning girls babies to die is common.

Just a thought.

Yep, that was my first thought too, Indian Britons bent on having sons because daughters are bothers, and expenses, and don't take care of you in your old age (as they will be taking care of their husband's parents)

[Tero]

Some people seem to go from OPs to opining without the intermediate step usually recommended for foruming...

I always jump to further ideas. Now I am thinking the fundies here could set up some kind of baby exchange. They could keep a small supply of fresh ones and you could go exchange your own product to one of the desired sex.

[Svartalf]

British law doesn't apply in the middle east or Indian sub-continent.

So what if an Indian mother said "this is a girl, I don't want a girl." That would warrant criminalizing her abortion that would otherwise be legal?

Uh? I seem to be reading you words but missing your point again.

Indians in India are free to drive themselves into a demographic hole if their lawmakers will let them, but this is about the UK.

[Guy_Montag]

British law doesn't apply in the middle east or Indian sub-continent.

So what if an Indian mother said "this is a girl, I don't want a girl." That would warrant criminalizing her abortion that would otherwise be legal?

Uh? I seem to be reading you words but missing your point again.

Indians in India are free to drive themselves into a demographic hole if their lawmakers will let them, but this is about the UK.

We have large non-integrated Indian & Pakistani communities in the UK. Some where English is not even understood, let alone spoken. Culturally & religiously they are closer to the sub-continent than to contemporary western culture. The sons & daughters will often be sent back to India or Pakistan to get a spouse or end up in a shallow grave for being an embarrassment to the family.

It's an effect of years of multiculturalism all cultures are equal, even the medieval ones.

[Rum]

British law doesn't apply in the middle east or Indian sub-continent.

So what if an Indian mother said "this is a girl, I don't want a girl." That would warrant criminalizing her abortion that would otherwise be legal?

Uh? I seem to be reading you words but missing your point again.

Indians in India are free to drive themselves into a demographic hole if their lawmakers will let them, but this is about the UK.

We have large non-integrated Indian & Pakistani communities in the UK. Some where English is not even understood, let alone spoken. Culturally & religiously they are closer to the sub-continent than to contemporary western culture. The sons & daughters will often be sent back to India or Pakistan to get a spouse or end up in a shallow grave for being an embarrassment to the family.

It's an effect of years of multiculturalism all cultures are equal, even the medieval ones.

[Svartalf]

You, other britons, is Guy's statement correct? I had no idea that there could be such unintegrated Indic communities on British soil.
At any rate, if those people dwell in Britain, if they can manage to do so in isolation from the natives, that is, I suppose, their business, but it does not change the fact that the law of the land is that of the British, not their own native customs.

[Guy_Montag]

Maybe I overstated it somewhat, I didn't mean to come across too virulently anti-immigrant, I'm more anti-"misogynist-medieval-culture".

However, below are some links. From a search "British Ghetto" on google. The first one is based on the 1991 census so is most dated, but probably least politicised.

Assorted links:

http://www.humanities.manchester.ac.uk/ ... hettos.pdf
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/arti ... cameron.do
http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1061340.html

[MrJonno]

You, other britons, is Guy's statement correct? I had no idea that there could be such unintegrated Indic communities on British soil.
At any rate, if those people dwell in Britain, if they can manage to do so in isolation from the natives, that is, I suppose, their business, but it does not change the fact that the law of the land is that of the British, not their own native customs.

They exist but in how many numbers is questionable, something like the Amish with kids only staying in school till 14 is hardly integrated and just as much bollocks in the US. Is someone being homeschooled only hanging around other brainwashed religious brats, going to a christain college integrated either?

[Svartalf]

The thing is that in the US, isolated communities, like the Amish,old style Chinatowns, Fundie mormons, not to mention various other cults, militias and others are a known, if not very visible, part of the landscape, and there's plenty room for it.

In the UK, which is a lot less roomy, and has less of an history of come one, come all, and do it your way, that's more surprising.

BTW, I notice that only muslim ghettos/isolated groups are mentioned. Is that due to the fact that you have mostly pakistani immigrants, as opposed to actual Indians, or to the fact that the hindu are more integrated?

[Pappa]

The thing is that in the US, isolated communities, like the Amish,old style Chinatowns, Fundie mormons, not to mention various other cults, militias and others are a known, if not very visible, part of the landscape, and there's plenty room for it.

In the UK, which is a lot less roomy, and has less of an history of come one, come all, and do it your way, that's more surprising.

BTW, I notice that only muslim ghettos/isolated groups are mentioned. Is that due to the fact that you have mostly pakistani immigrants, as opposed to actual Indians, or to the fact that the hindu are more integrated?

Yeah, it is mostly the more recent influx of Pakistani Muslims (and to a lesser extent Somali Muslims). The Indians mostly originate from the 50s and 60s and are basically integrated.

Before 9/11 I think 2nd gen Pakistani Muslims were in the process of integrating very well, but all that's changed since.

[MrJonno]

The thing is that in the US, isolated communities, like the Amish,old style Chinatowns, Fundie mormons, not to mention various other cults, militias and others are a known, if not very visible, part of the landscape, and there's plenty room for it.

In the UK, which is a lot less roomy, and has less of an history of come one, come all, and do it your way, that's more surprising.

BTW, I notice that only muslim ghettos/isolated groups are mentioned. Is that due to the fact that you have mostly pakistani immigrants, as opposed to actual Indians, or to the fact that the hindu are more integrated?

It really comes down to what you mean be integration, I would definitely include not breaking laws as integration but is it wrong to campaign to change laws?. Taking part in the political process is integration after all. Forced marriages are a crime and happen infrequently but arranged ones are more common, legal and used to extremely common among 'white' culture until very recently.

Is going to church on a Sunday integration, is reguarly going down the pub and getting wasted integration (its far more common than going to church)

[Pappa]

I've never really cared whether incomers integrate or not. It should be up to the individual if they want to do so.

[MrJonno]

I've never really cared whether incomers integrate or not. It should be up to the individual if they want to do so.

The social contract is obey the laws including pay your taxes and thats it no more requirements are made on the individual to get the benefits of living in that society. No woolly concepts like 'loyalty' or integration are needed.

That doesnt of course stop me thinking some parts of Asian/Muslim culture is utterly shit but while they obey the law its not really any of my business