Panorama - Poor America

[Coito ergo sum]

No. There were two incidents of this occurring recently reported in the news.

Seems kind of odd. Are these "random acts of Federal food policing" or an actual policy?

Of course it is policy. Federal officials do not conduct random food policing. If there isn't a law and implementing regulation giving them this power and direction, then they wouldn't do it.

At least not yet, we don't have a federal government that can embark on unrestrained policing of our behavior.

[eXcommunicate]

No. There were two incidents of this occurring recently reported in the news.

Seems kind of odd. Are these "random acts of Federal food policing" or an actual policy?

Of course it is policy. Federal officials do not conduct random food policing. If there isn't a law and implementing regulation giving them this power and direction, then they wouldn't do it.

At least not yet, we don't have a federal government that can embark on unrestrained policing of our behavior.

I'm looking for some real info here. All I can find are articles from conservative blogs (Rush Limbaugh is all over it) and Fox News. They mention state inspectors using federal money, not actual federal agents poking around in kids' lunchboxes.

This is the level of unbiased reporting I am finding on this issue from conservative commentators on some blogs:

In North Carolina…at an elementary school…federal agents were demanding children open their lunch boxes and reveal contents. The agents then picked through each item…extracting anything the federal agents thought “unwholesome…lack of proper ingredients…or…just not within the list of permitted food.”

The agents then directed the children to eat CHICK Mc NUGGETS. These McNuggets had been handed to each child by a black army suit-looking dude with high black boots…all shiny…with a cruel scar on his cheek and a sneer on his lips. He looked like SS Himmler…the butcher of Auschwitz. Many of the children were crying…but…ate as directed. One child screamed for her Mommy and was slapped by a jack booted AGENT with a butch haircut and black leather arm bands.

MICHELLE OBAMA had warned this elementary school it was targeted and every parent must kneel and lick her boot. She dispatched FEDERAL FOOD POLICE to slap and stomp any child who felt a need to utter “dissenting views”.

No real analysis of the policy and no interviews of state officials regarding the policy. If you could point me to a good source, I would appreciate it.

If we strip away the hyperbole, it looks like there's a federal program to fund state-level health departments in their efforts to see if they can bring the food that children are bringing to lunch at school up to the USDA minimum standards.

[Coito ergo sum]

CBS News: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-501363_162- ... unch-swap/

Article about the overall policy: http://news.heartland.org/newspaper-art ... cts-choose

Washington Post reporting the school's side of the story: http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/ ... tional_pop

My point was to cite the incongruity of an allegation that we aren't doing enough to help "the poor" when we have such programs that use federal resources to monitor whether Little Johnny drinks milk at lunch.

The whole concept is ridiculous. It's another global solution for a smaller problem -- now everyone is going to be pigeonholed into the same slot, because we're in the process of federalizing lunches at public schools. I mean, things like this boggle the mind, and make one's head spin.

...I once used to joke that people were putting so much expectation on the federal government that soon they'd be expecting a federal agency to fill the potholes on their street and fix their broken mailbox when kids play mailbox baseball... with stuff like "school lunches" being centralized and meted out via federal standards that people MUST comply with, I don't think we're from federalizing those other things either...

And, it doesn't make it any better to say that they just want to give kids USDA approved nutrition - the USDA standards haven't been shown to be ideal anyway. That "food pyramid" recently changed, because it was shown to have been unworkable and not even the best advice for nutrition. Who is to say that the current one is any better?

And, I don't want some official telling me my kid has to drink milk. What if I want to be a vegan? What if I want to be something other than a vegan that I feel is best for my child? This is a major thing.

[kiki5711]

When I heard the 6 yo girl saying she had eaten rat.........I thought of Seth.

I thought of my mother, whose family had to resort to eating rat a few times in the 1930s. Welcome to the fourth turning.

You're kidding about this right?

[Tero]

We don't need these people anymore. I don't really know what goods we make that they could make.

[Warren Dew]

When I heard the 6 yo girl saying she had eaten rat.........I thought of Seth.

I thought of my mother, whose family had to resort to eating rat a few times in the 1930s. Welcome to the fourth turning.

You're kidding about this right?

About the rats? No.

About the fourth turning? I'd like to be wrong, but I see little evidence for that.

[FBM]

Go to SE Asia or China and tell people you "had to resort to" eating rat. They would envy you.

Completely different side dishes, tho. No broccoli in China, for example. Not indigenously, I mean.

[Warren Dew]

1. Man says, "no job, no money, no doctor..." -- that just is not true. If he has no job and no money, he is eligible, flat out, for 100% coverage under Medicaid. He just needs to apply: https://dhcfp.nv.gov/index.htm - that's it.

True. However, there's apparently a lot of paperwork for medicaid. People might not bother with it until they really need the medical care. Plus, people may not be thinking of taking a few dollars for handing out flyers when they say "no job".

Nevada provides low income (including no income) and moderate-income housing assistance. http://www.snvrha.org/how-to-apply.htm - those people with no money and no job -- they absolutely qualify for free housing, until they acquire income, and then they may have to pay something which is income related.

There's a waiting list. My understanding from people who have been on the list is that it is typically years long, and you may never get to the top. That's because the people who are in the subsidized units don't like to leave them - which does kind of illustrate how that system is broken.

Nevada of course participates in the "Food Stamp" program, which for people with no and low income provides hundreds of dollars per month for food and sundries. http://www.nccp.org/profiles/NV_profile_29.html

I suspect many of the people in the video are on food stamps. They said, "no job, no money, no doctor" - they didn't say "no food". Granted in some cases they may have been turning in the food stamps for cash to spend on drugs.

6. "Rick" didn't qualify for unemployment pay? Why not? Why no explanation for that? If you lose your job, rather than quit, you're almost always eligible for unemployment. The only other reason would be if you aren't looking for work, or if you were fired for theft or other serious misconduct. Each of the stories has these little oddities about them. Something fishy about this video.

He was likely self employed, working for whatever prime contractor had work at any given time. Usually unemployment benefits only cover people in full time salaried or hourly jobs.

7. The video becomes insanely partisan about 10 minutes in.

True.

8. The video basically involves extreme anecdotes that do not appear representative. At 12 minutes in they're interviewing a very well-fed looking boy with blond hair who claims to go to bed hungry "often."

Going without dinner once a week is still pretty "often". It won't cause you to starve to death, though.

To be honest, most of the food and medical issues in that video are unimpressive. It's former working couples living in storm drains or tent cities that bother me. I'm okay with people living on the streets if they truly prefer that to working, but when it's because the economy has been destroyed - yes, that bothers me.

And, then the next girl seems to be acting coached when she says her mom ate a "rat."

She didn't look coached to me. She looked like she was being made to talk about things she'd rather not think about.

You didn't notice that she looked thinner than most of the other kids?

9. Then the video claims that "food shortages are widespread." Well, that's not true.

Well, the current standard for a food shortage seems to be that someone has gone to bed hungry once in the past year. That's a pretty low standard.

The problems actually shown in the video are far from widespread. 400 people living in storm drains in Las Vegas are a heck of a lot more than in 2008, but it's still very small compared to the total Las Vegas population of 580,000.

Still, it's worthwhile to know about these issues now. If there are 400 people living like that now where there were 2 four years ago, who knows where we'll be if we have another four years like the last four.

Honestly, when you pass a homeless person on the street, don't you ever think, "there but for the grace of God go I"? That's what I think when I see the families in that video. And my impression is that God is pretty fickle, so the fact that I've survived this long doesn't mean it won't happen to me next year.

[Warren Dew]

Go to SE Asia or China and tell people you "had to resort to" eating rat. They would envy you.

I don't remember seeing any rat for sale in China when I was there a few years ago. There wasn't a whole lot of meat, but most people could afford a little fish or pork.

I bet things are worse in North Korea than in southeast Asia.

[FBM]

Go to SE Asia or China and tell people you "had to resort to" eating rat. They would envy you.

I don't remember seeing any rat for sale in China when I was there a few years ago. There wasn't a whole lot of meat, but most people could afford a little fish or pork.

I bet things are worse in North Korea than in southeast Asia.

I've seen rat for sale in the markets in Laos and Vietnam. Not sure how widespread it is in China. China is a big place. http://www.snopes.com/photos/food/rats.asp

Cockroaches, beetles, and all sorts of other insects are sold on the streets of SE Asia, as well as scorpions. What constitutes 'desperation food' varies widely, I guess.

[Jesus_of_Nazareth]

The reason that the USA does not have more people in this situation is solely due to CAPITALISM.

What happens is that every 3 months big Companies collect the surplus poor people from the streets and put them on trains heading west.

and then recycle them into useful members of society. Mostly soap or hamburger based.

FACT.

[FBM]

The reason that the USA does not have more people in this situation is solely due to CAPITALISM.

What happens is that every 3 months big Companies collect the surplus poor people from the streets and put them on trains heading west.

and then recycle them into useful members of society. Mostly soap or hamburger based.

FACT.

fc_soap_production_grande.jpg (78.14 KiB) Viewed 180 times

[Hermit]

...or the video is exaggerated bullshit, and I'm leaning toward the latter. Fuck, wehave federal agents coming in and inspecting the lunches of children bringing food from home and forcing them to eat school provided lunches if they're not adequate...

Are you somewhat exaggerating here or is this a thing?

CBS News: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-501363_162- ... unch-swap/

You talk about exaggerated bullshit, then follow up with that link to prove that "we have federal agents coming in and inspecting the lunches of children bringing food from home and forcing them to eat school provided lunches if they're not adequate"? The irony is breathtaking.

[Coito ergo sum]

1. Man says, "no job, no money, no doctor..." -- that just is not true. If he has no job and no money, he is eligible, flat out, for 100% coverage under Medicaid. He just needs to apply: https://dhcfp.nv.gov/index.htm - that's it.

True. However, there's apparently a lot of paperwork for medicaid. People might not bother with it until they really need the medical care. Plus, people may not be thinking of taking a few dollars for handing out flyers when they say "no job".

I don't see any way around that, but there isn't that much paperwork. Walk into the office and they'll help fill it out.

What more can be done? Millions of people manage to fill out the paperwork, and get coverage. 300-400 are in "drug ridden" (I assume the drugs are not being done by other than the 300-400 people) drainage system. I can suggest a solution: send government officials down there to identify all those people, and sign them up for presently available public benefits, and place them in Section 8 housing and hand them food stamp cards. Then assign them a "buddy" to dress them in the morning, and walk them down to the shop and pick out their grocery, and assign them a personal chef to prepare them grilled cheeses.

Nevada provides low income (including no income) and moderate-income housing assistance. http://www.snvrha.org/how-to-apply.htm - those people with no money and no job -- they absolutely qualify for free housing, until they acquire income, and then they may have to pay something which is income related.

There's a waiting list. My understanding from people who have been on the list is that it is typically years long, and you may never get to the top. That's because the people who are in the subsidized units don't like to leave them - which does kind of illustrate how that system is broken.

My understanding is not that. But, I don't have time to look up the information.

If what you say is true, though, then it just goes to show why nationalizing food, clothing, shelter and perhaps medical care is not necessarily the best thing. The government is not beyond heartlessly waitlisting people while they are out on the street. Here we have a government program designed to put them in housing, and you're saying the government can't get it done, even for a small part of the population.

Nevada of course participates in the "Food Stamp" program, which for people with no and low income provides hundreds of dollars per month for food and sundries. http://www.nccp.org/profiles/NV_profile_29.html

I suspect many of the people in the video are on food stamps. They said, "no job, no money, no doctor" - they didn't say "no food". Granted in some cases they may have been turning in the food stamps for cash to spend on drugs.

Yes, perhaps, which belies the notion that they aren't getting assistance.

6. "Rick" didn't qualify for unemployment pay? Why not? Why no explanation for that? If you lose your job, rather than quit, you're almost always eligible for unemployment. The only other reason would be if you aren't looking for work, or if you were fired for theft or other serious misconduct. Each of the stories has these little oddities about them. Something fishy about this video.

He was likely self employed, working for whatever prime contractor had work at any given time. Usually unemployment benefits only cover people in full time salaried or hourly jobs.

No explanation was given. I believe they said he was employed.

7. The video becomes insanely partisan about 10 minutes in.

True.

8. The video basically involves extreme anecdotes that do not appear representative. At 12 minutes in they're interviewing a very well-fed looking boy with blond hair who claims to go to bed hungry "often."

Going without dinner once a week is still pretty "often". It won't cause you to starve to death, though.

They didn't say it was once a week - and the kid was fat.

To be honest, most of the food and medical issues in that video are unimpressive. It's former working couples living in storm drains or tent cities that bother me. I'm okay with people living on the streets if they truly prefer that to working, but when it's because the economy has been destroyed - yes, that bothers me.

It bothers me, too. But, that "tiler" and his girlfriend living in the storm drain. Something fishy there. I agree with the "meth head" assessment someone else suggested.

And, then the next girl seems to be acting coached when she says her mom ate a "rat."

She didn't look coached to me. She looked like she was being made to talk about things she'd rather not think about.

You didn't notice that she looked thinner than most of the other kids?

No. And, if she admitted to the school she was fed "rat" at home, then the school officials have the obligation to call social services and have the family investigated. Even if the parents are well intentioned, if they are neglecting the child and feeding her rats and other vermin, then action will be taken. The fact that no action has been taken, may be pregnant in its implications.

9. Then the video claims that "food shortages are widespread." Well, that's not true.

Well, the current standard for a food shortage seems to be that someone has gone to bed hungry once in the past year. That's a pretty low standard.

There is plenty of food, even for the poor. The poor in America are fat.

The problems actually shown in the video are far from widespread. 400 people living in storm drains in Las Vegas are a heck of a lot more than in 2008, but it's still very small compared to the total Las Vegas population of 580,000.

Still, it's worthwhile to know about these issues now. If there are 400 people living like that now where there were 2 four years ago, who knows where we'll be if we have another four years like the last four.

Honestly, when you pass a homeless person on the street, don't you ever think, "there but for the grace of God go I"? That's what I think when I see the families in that video. And my impression is that God is pretty fickle, so the fact that I've survived this long doesn't mean it won't happen to me next year.

I have a great deal of sympathy, and I contribute a great deal to assist the needy. And, with all the public and private resources available to someone who is truly destitute, I find it hard to believe that homelessness like that which is shown in the video requires much explanation beyond drugs and mental disability. That doesn't mean that we don't deal with those problems - but, throwing money at a meth head or someone suffering dementia isn't going to get them out of the storm drain.

[Coito ergo sum]

...or the video is exaggerated bullshit, and I'm leaning toward the latter. Fuck, wehave federal agents coming in and inspecting the lunches of children bringing food from home and forcing them to eat school provided lunches if they're not adequate...

Are you somewhat exaggerating here or is this a thing?

CBS News: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-501363_162- ... unch-swap/

You talk about exaggerated bullshit, then follow up with that link to prove that "we have federal agents coming in and inspecting the lunches of children bringing food from home and forcing them to eat school provided lunches if they're not adequate"? The irony is breathtaking.

My point blew by you.