Parenting with a .45

[Seth]

Seth, would you include telling someone in a non-joking way to fuck off as playing nice?

Sure. How many times has someone used the smiley with me and gotten away with it? How is this any different? We had quite a long discussion about telling people to fuck off and it wasn't deemed a personal attack then, so why should it be now?

[Seth]

Seth, I've got shit to do.

Have a lovely shit. Your need to take a shit doesn't impose a requirement that I explain myself to your satisfaction I'm afraid. Pinch out a loaf and then get back to reasoning rationally.

Don't talk to Twofy like that again.

If it's appropriate to do so, I will. Put a muzzle on MrJonno and perhaps I won't have to.

She was doing her job, and if I had to guess, at that particular moment her heart wasn't in it. So give her a break, will you.

That's rather the point. She's a mod, so she doesn't get breaks in the performance of her official duties, and if I disagree with her modding, I can tell her to fuck off, just like so many people here have told me to fuck off and remain within the rules. Unless you plan on applying the rules arbitrarily.

[FBM]

Seth, would you include telling someone in a non-joking way to fuck off as playing nice?

Sure. How many times has someone used the smiley with me and gotten away with it? How is this any different? We had quite a long discussion about telling people to fuck off and it wasn't deemed a personal attack then, so why should it be now?

My (limited) memory of that discussion was that wasn't a violation of the 'play nice' rule as long as the context made it clear that it was in jest. Has my memory failed me here? It could be, but there seems to be a big difference between a smiley in light-hearted banter and telling someone straightforward in a contentious context to fuck off.

[Seth]

MrJonno, I'm genuinely curious. Why do you associate gun ownership with all the negative connotations that you regularly post?

I have negative connotations about most human beings whether they armed or not.

I have a good story about going home on the bus last night, so little shit was playing his tinny mobile phone music on full blast. He was pissing of everyone no one said anything as its basically risking a fight on the bus. I felt like drawing a gun and blowing him away (if I had one I probably would have the self control not to) but not convinced everyone else would. The vast majority of murders are not preplanned assasinations or even drug dealers shooting at each they are people either get pissed of with their girlfriend/wife after having too much to drink or people getting into fights over trivial things like spilt drinks or what music is on

Now what scenario is better some one heavily armed risks his life (or that the person with the bad rap music) or we all go home listening to it .

Sorry would rather have an unpleasant bus journey that one that becomes dangerous.

The fallacy in this bit of unreason is the assertion that the "vast majority of murders" are committed by ordinary people who suddenly go berserk over trivial matters like bad music on a bus. This is an ignorant paranoid lie. The facts are far different, and as the quarter-century experiment here in the US has proven conclusively, ordinary people who lawfully carry firearms are far LESS likely to be involved in any sort of criminal activity AT ALL than even people like MrJonno. Paranoiacs and pussies and cowards sit there an take the bad behavior of others because they understand that the jackals of society are all too likely to bash the ever-living shit out of anyone who pisses THEM off, for the most trivial of reasons, and they are fearful of the consequences of pissing anyone off.

Had I been on the bus, I'd not have felt like drawing a gun and blowing anyone away. That's because I don't live in panicked fear that someone is going to hurt me and I don't live in rage that I'm impotent to defend myself like literally everyone in the UK, and especially MrJonno does. I live my life fear-free because I KNOW that if I were on the bus, and that sociopath (any sociopath really, including pussies and cowards who snap under the load of fear and anger) wigged out and started trying to kill or seriously injure others merely because someone asked him to turn down his music (or because he couldn't take the stress of living in constant fear and anger), I'd be able to put a stop to his attack one way or another, most likely without even firing a shot, because those kinds of social misfits are themselves just bullies, who are innately cowards and wouldn't have the balls to take on an armed citizen who has the drop on him.

That MrJonno admits to feeling that he might "blowing him away" reveals a deep-seated rage and fear that's far MORE dangerous than my carrying a gun every day for the last 25 years. I don't have deep-seated paranoid fears and rage because I'm not afraid all the time, like MrJonno is, what with his admitted "negative connotation" of his fellow citizens. People who live their lives mired in fear and anger at others are PRECISELY the kind of people who suddenly snap and start killing people out of the blue. They go insane one day and get on the bus with a jar of gasoline mixed with laundry detergent and a match and they burn everyone alive. They can't take all the fear and rage anymore one day and they drive their car through a bus-stop full of people or an open-air market and kill 30 people. That's what constant fear and rage does to people with defective minds.

So, you see, you're far safer sitting on a bus with me than with MrJonno, because I know what to do, and when, when it comes to dealing with life's little annoyances, and I know how to differentiate between a deadly dangerous situation and annoyance, and how to respond properly to each. And I (and Gallstones) are among the few who are actually trained and equipped to do so.

[Seth]

Seth, would you include telling someone in a non-joking way to fuck off as playing nice?

Sure. How many times has someone used the smiley with me and gotten away with it? How is this any different? We had quite a long discussion about telling people to fuck off and it wasn't deemed a personal attack then, so why should it be now?

My (limited) memory of that discussion was that wasn't a violation of the 'play nice' rule as long as the context made it clear that it was in jest. Has my memory failed me here? It could be, but there seems to be a big difference between a smiley in light-hearted banter and telling someone straightforward in a contentious context to fuck off.

Since when has anybody here told me to fuck off as a part of light-hearted banter?

[hadespussercats]

Seth, I've got shit to do.

Have a lovely shit. Your need to take a shit doesn't impose a requirement that I explain myself to your satisfaction I'm afraid. Pinch out a loaf and then get back to reasoning rationally.

Don't talk to Twofy like that again.

If it's appropriate to do so, I will. Put a muzzle on MrJonno and perhaps I won't have to.

She was doing her job, and if I had to guess, at that particular moment her heart wasn't in it. So give her a break, will you.

That's rather the point. She's a mod, so she doesn't get breaks in the performance of her official duties, and if I disagree with her modding, I can tell her to fuck off, just like so many people here have told me to fuck off and remain within the rules. Unless you plan on applying the rules arbitrarily.

I don't plan on applying any rules arbitrarily. And I don't muzzle anyone. No matter how much I might like to.

I'm out.

[Seth]

If you're of the frame of mind to inflict violence on another person, you can always find a way. http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=35349

I hope this doesn't sound like machismo, but one reason I came to Korea 15 years ago was to learn Hapkido. I don't need a weapon to kill someone who annoys me. A lot of people have annoyed me, and I have yet to get physical with a single one of them. I think the importance of the psycology of the individual far outweighs the fact that a gun is easier to use than a knife. When you're in the frame of mind to attack someone, you don't do the calculus required to distinguish between the amount of effort required to weild a knive vs a firearm, I'd guess. A chainsaw is a lot more difficult to weild than a firearm, and that didn't deter the guy in the above link.

Most people do need weapons to kill, fists take an awful lot of effort to kill, knives less so and guns none at all.

It's also not about the psyschology of the individual its about the psychology of the population. The fact that hospitals are filled predictable with people kicking the shit out of each other every weekend without fail shows that large numbers of people will try to kill each other on a regular basis but luckily most the time they will fail

Except that a) hospitals aren't filled with people kicking the shit out of each other every weekend over here in the US. I used to work in a hospital,and while there were plenty of bar fights, it hardly qualifies as "large numbers of people;" b) people in bar fights aren't generally trying to kill one another over here, which is why they don't end up killing people except by accident; c) most people who try to kill someone else don't fail, they succeed.

Now, in the UK, there are plenty of gangs of useless dependent-class proletarian yobs who like kicking the shit out of just about anyone, but they exist precisely because the fucking pussies of the UK won't do what they are entitled to do in the face of a potentially deadly gang attack: pull out a gun and start killing them. When five or six people start beating and kicking you, you're in deadly danger or danger of serious bodily harm, and you're justified in shooting them dead without warning, and should.

Over here, gangs don't mess with average citizens nearly as much as they mess with rival gangs. And where gangs of yobs do go on rampages and attack citizens, it happens almost exclusively in states and cities where the average citizen is prohibited from carrying a gun, like New York, Chicago, Detroit, Los Angeles, and San Francisco.

While it does happen elsewhere occasionally, including here in Denver, it's not nearly as frequent as it is in the UK, and it's certainly not "every weekend." The last time it happened in Colorado was a couple of years ago when a gang of about sixteen blacks were randomly assaulting people on the downtown 16th Street pedestrian mall. It happened about half a dozen times and then they were caught and locked up. But they were very careful to only assault helpless-looking people like little old ladies and kids, and they were just lucky they didn't try it on someone like me. It was big, big news, not a regular occurrence like it is in many parts of the UK.

MrJonno's paranoid assessment of his fellow citizens is delusional in the extreme, although in the UK I can see why he might feel that way...because his government has (with his willing cooperation) turned everyone into helpless sheeple who are incapable of self-defense and who are actually legally forbidden to effectively engage in self defense at all.

[Gallstones]

MrJonno, I'm genuinely curious. Why do you associate gun ownership with all the negative connotations that you regularly post?

I have negative connotations about most human beings whether they armed or not.

I have a good story about going home on the bus last night, so little shit was playing his tinny mobile phone music on full blast. He was pissing of everyone no one said anything as its basically risking a fight on the bus. I felt like drawing a gun and blowing him away (if I had one I probably would have the self control not to) but not convinced everyone else would. The vast majority of murders are not preplanned assasinations or even drug dealers shooting at each they are people either get pissed of with their girlfriend/wife after having too much to drink or people getting into fights over trivial things like spilt drinks or what music is on

Now what scenario is better some one heavily armed risks his life (or that the person with the bad rap music) or we all go home listening to it .

Sorry would rather have an unpleasant bus journey that one that becomes dangerous.

I get from this that you are really afraid of yourself and project that fear onto others.


I grew up with guns always being around. The men in my family are cabinet makers (general do it yourselfers) and they made gun cabinets out of fine wood and self made moldings and glass doors. The guns were not only being stored, they were being shown off as furniture. I wish I had one of these gun cabinets, alas...

Many of them (my family) were also heavy drinkers.

I never saw a one of them take a gun out in anger or threaten another person with one or talk about doing that.
If they ever felt the need to punish some douche, it was by using their fists.
I have never known anyone who was shot deliberately or accidentally.

[eXcommunicate]

This is the trouble with giving your kids all the things you never had-- you expect them to feel grateful, instead of just thinking that's the way it's always been. But for the child, it is the way it's always been.

I like this insight. Thank you.

[Gallstones]

And another thing, I didn't indoctrinate my son into weaponry.
He showed an interest from a very early age in cars and things that went boom.
It wasn't my idea to buy him toy guns, he asked for them and he made them for himself out of legos and any other material he had to hand. He draws and designs them, he makes small cannons, he loves fireworks and martial arts. When he has his own money he buys his own rifles, he set up a practice range in the back yard, he shoots competitively and got second place in the state. He has a talent as well as the skills to be accurate.

These are his interests, he thinks and behaves responsibly, and I see no reason why he can't pursue them.

[Ronja]

Seth, would you include telling someone in a non-joking way to fuck off as playing nice?

Sure. How many times has someone used the smiley with me and gotten away with it? How is this any different? We had quite a long discussion about telling people to fuck off and it wasn't deemed a personal attack then, so why should it be now?

You are confusing two different rules there, Seth. Something does not have to be against the no personal attacks rule to be against the play nice rule.

[eXcommunicate]

And another thing, I didn't indoctrinate my son into weaponry.
He showed an interest from a very early age in cars and things that went boom.

I may be in the minority here, but even if he hadn't have shown "interest" in guns, I think it's right to teach your child the proper handling and respect of firearms (and other weaponry). There is utility in this beyond "making things go bang." Just because the UK (and other countries) bans firearm ownership on some level does not mean a UKer won't encounter firearms in their lives. What will they do? How will they react? In fear stoked by ignorance or with steady assurance born through experience and knowledge? Do we want our children to be frightened sheep or benevolent lions? And the kind of people who have been taught proper firearm handling and respect are not the kind of people to go hold up liquor stores and mug people on the street.

[Gallstones]

Seth, I've got shit to do.

Have a lovely shit. Your need to take a shit doesn't impose a requirement that I explain myself to your satisfaction I'm afraid. Pinch out a loaf and then get back to reasoning rationally.

Don't talk to Twofy like that again.

If it's appropriate to do so, I will. Put a muzzle on MrJonno and perhaps I won't have to.

She was doing her job, and if I had to guess, at that particular moment her heart wasn't in it. So give her a break, will you.

That's rather the point. She's a mod, so she doesn't get breaks in the performance of her official duties, and if I disagree with her modding, I can tell her to fuck off, just like so many people here have told me to fuck off and remain within the rules. Unless you plan on applying the rules arbitrarily.

Ugh.

I don't understand why you sometimes feel the need to push antagonism to such an absurd level and unnecessarily. Doing that, IMO, is not stimulating discussion of worthy topics, it makes people want to avoid you instead. And IMO, causing people to want to avoid you is really an undesirable consequence. I had been thinking you desired to have people want to engage. I'm also thinking, perhaps naively, that the latter better serves your best interests too.

[Gallstones]

And another thing, I didn't indoctrinate my son into weaponry.
He showed an interest from a very early age in cars and things that went boom.

I may be in the minority here, but even if he hadn't have shown "interest" in guns, I think it's right to teach your child the proper handling and respect of firearms (and other weaponry). There is utility in this beyond "making things go bang." Just because the UK (and other countries) bans firearm ownership on some level does not mean a UKer won't encounter firearms in their lives. What will they do? How will they react? In fear stoked by ignorance or with steady assurance born through experience and knowledge? Do we want our children to be frightened sheep or benevolent lions? And the kind of people who have been taught proper firearm handling and respect are not the kind of people to go hold up liquor stores and mug people on the street.

This too.
As consequence to pursuing his interests he attended training, joined the groups, and adopted an attitude of informed responsibility. He even lectures me--the upstart little shit.

[Ronja]

As consequence to pursuing his interests he attended training, joined the groups, and adopted an attitude of informed responsibility. He even lectures me--the upstart little shit.

They do that, don't they...