Christianity becoming 'marginalised' in Britain

[Lozzer]

Former Archbishop of Canterbury Lord Carey has said the Christian faith is facing "gradual marginalisation".

His warning came after the High Court ruled a council acted unlawfully by allowing prayers to be said before meetings, a ruling which could affect councils across England and Wales.

He told the BBC the ruling was "an empty victory" and councillors should continue prayers.

The case had been backed by the National Secular Society.

Lord Carey told the BBC he was concerned people hostile to religion were trying to redefine the public role of religious faith and the case had highlighted this.

Action was brought against Bideford Town Council after an atheist councillor complained about the prayers.

"This is the gradual marginalisation of the Christian faith, being pushed to the outskirts," he said.

Public faith
He said this was partly due to people misunderstanding the role of the church.

But he also said there was "a deliberate attempt by groups like the National Secular Society and others, who are campaigning to get rid of Christianity as a public faith".

Former Bideford councillor, Clive Bone, an atheist, had argued he faced discrimination and had his human rights infringed by having to be present for prayers during council meetings.

On Friday, the High Court ruled the prayers were not lawful because they were not inherent to the council's work so the council had no power to hold them as part of its formal agenda.

However, the judge said prayers could be said as long as councillors were not formally summoned to attend.

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Equalities seem to trump all other types of freedom”

Lord Carey
But Lord Carey said the decision was "nonsense" and the councillors in Bideford had wanted to say prayers.

Lord Carey said: "The test of democracy is how we contain disagreements and minorities."

He said Christians did not just leave their faith "at the door" when they went to work or were involved in the public sphere and that meant that there could sometimes be confrontation and competition.

He said religious freedom no longer seemed to be a priority.

"Equalities seem to trump all other types of freedom," he said.

'Christian country'
He had earlier written in the Daily Mail that the judgements - a test case for England and Wales - could have "incredibly far-reaching consequences".

He called on the government to act and allow local councils to decide for themselves whether they wished to say prayers or not

He wrote: "These legal rulings may also mean army chaplains could no longer serve, and that the Coronation Oath, in which the King or Queen pledges to maintain the laws of God and the lessons contained in the Gospels, would need to be abolished.

"This is a truly terrifying prospect."

Mr Bone said he had taken the action so that people who were not religious would not be put off from applying for public service roles.

Communities secretary Eric Pickles described the ruling as "disappointing" and said Britain "remained a Christian country". He said he would try to bring forward the Localism Act - which gives local authorities more power - in order to reverse the ban on council prayers.

"The new law will be in place this time by next week and the local authorities will be in a position to be able to do what they have always done which is to have prayers before a meeting."

On Saturday the National Secular Society, which had backed the case, it tweeted: "Secularism seeks to ensure & protect freedom of religious belief & practice for *all* citizens. Challenging privilege is not anti-religious."

On Friday the society's executive director Keith Porteous Wood called the judgment "an important victory" for those seeking a secular society where they would not be disadvantaged by religion

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-16995239

Boohoo. The presence of their religion in the public domain is being intellectually and legally challenged, and this somehow amounts to 'persecution'.

[Animavore]

And they will continue to get marginalised as less and less people in Britain care about them. To quote a fellow member, adapt or die. They aren't with the times and come across as archaic. No one wants to listen to them any more. Kids nowadays couldn't care less about religion. Not that they're becoming atheists but more apatheists. They have all their gadgets, XBOX and TV. Their life is filled with things to do rather than go to boring church. Even the ones that believe in 'something' out there believe in their own, individual way rather than be told. A lot of them seem to have their own little idea about what God and Jesus are/is, a lot of the time totally different from the accepted dogma < and there in lies the problem. Dogma is more or less dead.

[Atheist-Lite]

Do I hear a drowning man crying for assistance? Best not go near in case he drags me under with him?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Next, the Vatican.

[Audley Strange]

Surely if one genuinely accepts a deity then the attempt at ritual and devotional communication with it should be a personal thing, like masturbation? Thus encouraging others to pray in public should be considered as perverse as encouraging everyone to beat off prior to each meeting. Do you really want such questionable weirdos usurping your council?

[amused]

Surely if one genuinely accepts a deity then the attempt at ritual and devotional communication with it should be a personal thing, like masturbation? Thus encouraging others to pray in public should be considered as perverse as encouraging everyone to beat off prior to each meeting. Do you really want such questionable weirdos usurping your council?

Heh. Now there's an argument I haven't seen before.

praying in public = masturbating in public

That would look good on the side of a bus.

[Audley Strange]

Surely if one genuinely accepts a deity then the attempt at ritual and devotional communication with it should be a personal thing, like masturbation? Thus encouraging others to pray in public should be considered as perverse as encouraging everyone to beat off prior to each meeting. Do you really want such questionable weirdos usurping your council?

Heh. Now there's an argument I haven't seen before.

praying in public = masturbating in public

That would look good on the side of a bus.

And... if one believes Yahweh the friendly ghost is omnipotent and omniscient anyway, then it must be considered the ultimate blasphemous arrogance to verbally or mentally petition it, since it already knows and to do so is to appeal it to make it's perfect plan imperfect to benefit a handful of fucking selfish wankers.

Considering what we know of that creature's psychology, the lack of clusters of the sancitmonious and pious dying in the streets with plagues of boils suggests to me, nothing but hot air. Which is essentially what spirit rauch and pneuma mean.

[Svartalf]

I must admit that the ruling, in a country where chretinity is officially the state religion, surprised me a bit... then again, if William sshould be divorced or widowed, he is going to be allowed to marry a catholic, so I guess that parliament has decided the CoE has definitely become obsolete and irrelevant... don't you have more practicing hindus or muslims in britain than chretins now?

[Svartalf]

Next, the Vatican.

No way, Italy is not interested in assumint the maintenance of all the treasures in there.
Politically, they have been irrelevant for a loooong time, even if they maintain one of the most active diplomacy and espionage networks in the world.

[Ronja]

When I was a born-again xian, these passages of the bible made a deep impression. It still amazes me how few of those who call themselves Christians seem to be familiar with them.

Matthew 6

1 Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

2 So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. ...

3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,

4 so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

5 And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. ...

6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

16 When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show men they are fasting. ...

17 But when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face

18 so that it will not be obvious to men that you are fasting, but only to your Father, who is unseen; and your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

When I was a xian, I was of the opinion that public displays of religiousness and piety were unchristian behavior. That opinion was for the most part based on the passages quoted above (and there are more with a similar message in the bible, too). Come to think of it, I see no reason to change that opinion even though I relate to religions in a very different way today.