French Court Says Scientology Is A Scam, Not A Religion

[Animavore]

Wel the difference is that most religions ask for donations which you don't have to give if you don't want to. They don't blatently dupe you out of your money and this is what's being addressed here.
It's not like the "socialist" government are banning the religion. They just have to quit their con-artistry.

[Svartalf]

This was the best part:

The court found that Scientology offers “free personality tests which delivered negative results to disturb people and convince them of the need to seek cures.” Recruits are then given “new tests, which again delivered negative results,” in order to get recruits to buy more courses, stated the ruling.
The Church of Scientology has branded these accusations as “absolutely ridiculous.”

What I have seen (I used to collect various "psychological" "tests" when I was younger and try to spot bias in them) absolutely accurate would be a better wording about the court's description.

And what religion doesn't do this?

Of course. But the scientologists were stoopid enough to leave a paper trail. So anyone who can get their hands on one of their so called "tests" - and knows even a little bit about real, validated psychological tests - can spot that there is something right fishy going on in five seconds.

Moral of the story: if you're going to fuck with other people's minds and demand tax-exempt status while doing it, don't leave easy-to-find evidence about what exactly you are doing.

Is it that the test is bad from ground up (bad set of questions), or that the "grading system" is rigged to yield only bad results (and possibly tell the scients what buttons to push to part the fool from his money)?

[Svartalf]

And that's WHY we have a First Amendment. Government (in this case through the court) has always attempted to suppress disfavored religions (in this case Scientology) in order to advance its own preferred religion (in this case Socialism). That's why we barred our government from doing so.

Sarkozy a socialist?

Or maybe the French judiciary is infested with Trotskyites

I guess what I posted two minutes ago in another thread has just been proven.

compared to Gingrich? yeah. Then again, to Seth, anybody left of Nixon or Reagan isd a pinko commie that should be stored in Gitmo.

[Audley Strange]

A French court has slapped a fraud sentence on the Church of Scientology, saying it targets vulnerable people for commercial gain.

Doesn't that apply to practically all forms of marketing, religion and Star Wars fans?

[Ronja]

This was the best part:

The court found that Scientology offers “free personality tests which delivered negative results to disturb people and convince them of the need to seek cures.” Recruits are then given “new tests, which again delivered negative results,” in order to get recruits to buy more courses, stated the ruling.
The Church of Scientology has branded these accusations as “absolutely ridiculous.”

What I have seen (I used to collect various "psychological" "tests" when I was younger and try to spot bias in them) absolutely accurate would be a better wording about the court's description.

And what religion doesn't do this?

Of course. But the scientologists were stoopid enough to leave a paper trail. So anyone who can get their hands on one of their so called "tests" - and knows even a little bit about real, validated psychological tests - can spot that there is something right fishy going on in five seconds.

Moral of the story: if you're going to fuck with other people's minds and demand tax-exempt status while doing it, don't leave easy-to-find evidence about what exactly you are doing.

Is it that the test is bad from ground up (bad set of questions), or that the "grading system" is rigged to yield only bad results (and possibly tell the scients what buttons to push to part the fool from his money)?

The ones I saw in the 1980s were bad from ground up - even without formal training one could see that the questions and/or answer alternatives were slanted to create self-doubt. Blatantly leading and not a trace of any attempt to balance or be objective, that's what I saw.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Scientology isn't a religion. It's just bad sci-fi. Magic powers and possession by invisible entities. I mean.

Oh wait... I suppose that does make it a religion!

[apophenia]

Meh. France has never been kind to Scientology. This is no more news than Germany suppressing Holocaust deniers. The Church still prospers elsewhere.

Not an important question anyway, as the CoS makes most of its money from real estate these days.


Oh, and btw, the CoS publicly declares a belief in God as part of their creed, and declares the existence of both past lives and souls; I don't think you can get more religious than that. People tend to suggest that certain aspects of Scientology exclude it from being a religion. I think they're just looking for one more corner to grab in bringing Scientology down. I'm quite certain that L. Ron Hubbard's motives were less than saintly in forming the church. That's irrelevant. Even if Joseph Smith were discovered to have been a conscious fraud, that would not impugn the religious character of the Mormon church.


An important point has been raised: What makes a religion a religion. (I've been denied access to a comparative religion discussion on the grounds that Taoism is a philosophy and not a religion.)

[FBM]

Much like Buddhism, Taoism has both religious and philosophical paths for people to follow. Most people choose the religious path because it requires less brain work and delivers more feel-good for the buck. Charlatans thrive there. As for the philosophical path, there's not much money in it and it contradicts most of what the people on the religious path are taught. IME.

[amused]

Oh FFS!

LOL

Yeah, and

[Seth]

A French court has slapped a fraud sentence on the Church of Scientology, saying it targets vulnerable people for commercial gain.

Doesn't that apply to practically all forms of marketing, religion and Star Wars fans?

Yup. It falls under the "There's a Sucker Born Every Minute" and "Caveat Emptor" categories.

Who the fuck are the French to interfere with a voluntary commercial transaction? How are the French going to determine that the claims of the Scientologists are not true? Ever hear of the "placebo effect?"

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Ever hear of scam artists?

[Seth]

Ever hear of scam artists?

Ever hear of "don't be a gullible boob?"

People who get scammed get scammed because they are greedy, so their getting scammed is merely a trip up on their own petard.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

You haven't been really happy since those damn Cro-Magnons moved in next door, have you?

[Seabass]

First they came for the Scientologists...

[Gawdzilla Sama]

First they came for the Scientologists...

...then they came for the pedo priests.