Put That Fire Out!

[Xamonas Chegwé]

An interesting new blog article from Sam Harris today. Read it - it's quite short.

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the- ... e-delusion

The thing is though, that I found no trouble at all in accepting his criticism of wood fires as harmful. A fact which rather undermines the main point of his argument - that skeptics and atheists can be as resistant to "facts" which go against "what they intuitively know" as fundies can.

Maybe I'm different from Sam's secular friends - maybe I'm a bit weird - but I don't have much of a problem with amending my worldview to encompass new data. I like to think that I am far more comfortable with having my entrenched views challenged, and far more willing to change them if necessary, than the vast majority of the religious. I simply don't accept things without evidence - and if the evidence changes, then my viewpoint changes.

[FBM]

Wow. I'm convinced. And I grew up with fireplaces, wood stoves, campfires, etc. I love staring into a fire for hours on end. But I'm convinced by that article that I need to put a cap on that shit.

[Atheist-Lite]

Convinced me that I should carry on using electric heating powered by the local coal fired power station.

[maiforpeace]

An interesting new blog article from Sam Harris today. Read it - it's quite short.

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the- ... e-delusion

The thing is though, that I found no trouble at all in accepting his criticism of wood fires as harmful. A fact which rather undermines the main point of his argument - that skeptics and atheists can be as resistant to "facts" which go against "what they intuitively know" as fundies can.

Maybe I'm different from Sam's secular friends - maybe I'm a bit weird - but I don't have much of a problem with amending my worldview to encompass new data. I like to think that I am far more comfortable with having my entrenched views challenged, and far more willing to change them if necessary, than the vast majority of the religious. I simply don't accept things without evidence - and if the evidence changes, then my viewpoint changes.

What about the factory farmed meat delusion? We've had these discussions here plenty of times, and the reaction is predictably the same, despite the evidence that eating factory farmed meat isn't good for our health, it's highly destructive to the environment, and it's cruel and inhumane to the creatures we eat. Bacon is one of the worst when it comes to all the negatives of meat, but we worship it around here, don't we?

We are no better than the religious in this regard...we cling to our irrational fears and beliefs too.

[JacksSmirkingRevenge]

Wood = Free fuel.
I know a few people who harvest and burn drift-wood etc. because they can't afford to heat their homes with gas or electricity...the prices of which are pretty damned unlikely to drop any time soon.

[Trinity]

Interesting post XC, I like the way he writes. Scared the shit out of me though that's it for me then. Not only have I smoked cigarettes (and other smokable things ) for about 14 yrs on and off and still do , but for the last 15 years have burnt wood for heating. Not only that but for some of that time we had a coal boiler, so every day we had to empty bags of coal gribblets into it which made loads of duat which would take ages to settle. Not only that, but we had asbestos walls in our bathroom(asbestos dated from circa 1950's) which I decorated and and made holes in.
So, I'm fucked. Oh well, better breathe in some more of this gorgeous sea air

[Robert_S]

But I like the smell of smoke.

[MiM]

I read that article already before this thread came up. Some of the things Harris is mentioning are no news to me at all, like that wood fire is poisonous and can be quite harmful, while I believe he is bending his facts quite a lot at some places. For one, the lung cancer statistics would look rather different, if the smoke from our fireplaces were as big a health threat as tobbaco. Also his "Research shows that nearly 70 percent of chimney smoke reenters nearby buildings" sounds like kind of a weasel sentence: what research, in what conditions. Could be true when ther's a low inversion in a tightly built neighbourhood, but definitely not during normal weather conditions in the sparsely built suburb type I live in. Another point, if a room is as filled with wood smoke, as a busy restaurant might be with tobacco, I, for one am definitely not happy any more.

So his conclusion is a little so so. There are lots of things that are bad for us, that we allow (as has been pointed out here already) and wood burning (while definitely often unhealthy) is probably not quite as bad as he tries to make it look. I believe some regions already have "no burn alerts/prohibitions" when weather conditions keep the smoke low and among us, and those probably are good to have and follow.

On his other conclusion (about atheists) I mostly agree with the original comment by XC

[JacksSmirkingRevenge]

I'm freezing...Time to put another car tyre on the fire, methinks.

[Trinity]

I'm freezing...Time to put another car tyre on the fire, methinks.

Freak Brothers stylee!!

[JacksSmirkingRevenge]

Freak Brothers...

[Ronja]

Well, I had been thinking of lighting a wood fire today - I've been wearing an extra fleece shirt instead.

But I do think it is important that our kids learn more about how to build, light and tend a wood fire (and a charcoal grill) as safely as reasonably achievable: they regularly stay at places where those skills are required for a modicum of comfort, and if something weird enough happens, for survival.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

We have campfires 2-3 times a week. When I present I speak of how people heading west in the 1850s might have stopped in this very spot for the night, and sat around a fire telling stories. I remind people that many of these folks would have been just a few generations away from their European roots and they had brought their myths, legends and tall tales with them to this country. Including stories about wolves.

[PsychoSerenity]

It's quite a different situation with a closed wood burner in a farm-house surrounded by nothing but miles of farmland that provide free wood - where it would be inefficient and more polluting to use any other kind of fuel. And also in the wilderness with camp-fires, though obviously best not to stand down wind.

But certainly, in an urban environment, if it is as bad as he makes out (the 70% thing seems a bit odd tbh), and the alternatives are better and made cheaply available (I'm not at all sure that some people's old boilers would be cleaner, so government funding for upgrades would be needed) - and after some other practical points have been taken care of in a similar way (easy waste disposal, convenient and cheap outdoor heating/cooking), I don't hold much sentiment for burning wood. If we're better without it, I'm fine with that.

[Horwood Beer-Master]

Fire is real - god is not.

All hail fire!..