We wunt are Predent to be a dumbass.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The Americans have no word for Dumbass.

"Dubya"

[Ian]

I don't think it's the ability to speak a foreign language that is the case here. Mr. Huntsman speaks Mandarin Chinese, and I think most people, even the most knuckle-dragging Republicans, would consider that to be a big plus. George W. Bush spoke Spanish. It's the particular language: French. At this time in US history, it invites a certain amount of antipathy among right-wingers.

Frenchness has always, not just this time in history, and not just among right-wingers, been viewed negatively, and Americans didn't invent it. We got it from the Brits.

But, it is correct, it's not the knowledge of another language that is the issue. It's the Frenchness. The French and France have an air about them of effete snobbery, and an attitude of superiority.

We can't help it if the beauty of our language, not to mention the superiority of our culture and achievements just make the rest of the world feel inferior.

Much as the Id-driven brute inside me would like to take issue with your post, I think there's a kernel of truth to be found somewhere in there (at least about the language part). When I was 12 I had the option of choosing French or Spanish as the language I'd like to learn in school. I picked French. Between the two, it seemed much more intelligent, more cultured, and I knew there'd be more girls in those classes than in the Spanish ones.

[Atheist-Lite]

My French teacher was a cruel nasty woman with one of those sharp pointed voices some women have, and a wooden leg she'd threaten to take off and hit you with. I never took to French. It didn't seem intellectual to me. A beautiful country though.

[Svartalf]

I don't think it's the ability to speak a foreign language that is the case here. Mr. Huntsman speaks Mandarin Chinese, and I think most people, even the most knuckle-dragging Republicans, would consider that to be a big plus. George W. Bush spoke Spanish. It's the particular language: French. At this time in US history, it invites a certain amount of antipathy among right-wingers.

Frenchness has always, not just this time in history, and not just among right-wingers, been viewed negatively, and Americans didn't invent it. We got it from the Brits.

But, it is correct, it's not the knowledge of another language that is the issue. It's the Frenchness. The French and France have an air about them of effete snobbery, and an attitude of superiority.

We can't help it if the beauty of our language, not to mention the superiority of our culture and achievements just make the rest of the world feel inferior.

Much as the Id-driven brute inside me would like to take issue with your post, I think there's a kernel of truth to be found somewhere in there (at least about the language part). When I was 12 I had the option of choosing French or Spanish as the language I'd like to learn in school. I picked French. Between the two, it seemed much more intelligent, more cultured, and I knew there'd be more girls in those classes than in the Spanish ones.

Nothing bad to say about Spanish as a literary language... writers like Cervantez, Garcia-Marquez and Garcia-Lorca have much to commend them... and unless you are intimately involved in Northern and Western Africa, I suspect Spanish is a much more common and useful communication tool.

[Svartalf]

My French teacher was a cruel nasty woman with one of those sharp pointed voices some women have, and a wooden leg she'd threaten to take off and hit you with. I never took to French. It didn't seem intellectual to me. A beautiful country though.

I once had a Latin teacher who was so horrible I seriously envisioned giving up that subject. I still ended up being the best in my class when I did some in college... like 4 years later.

[Eddie]

ALL Latin teachers are horrible.
And I don't thing it's their fault Latin turns you into an evil dictator.

[Svartalf]

ALL Latin teachers are horrible.
And I don't thing it's their fault Latin turns you into an evil dictator.

Actually not, Over the 6 years I did Latin, I had excellent ones at least 4 years out of the 6

[Warren Dew]

However, the fine dining establishments all over Washington D.C. saw no decrease in the amount of expensive French wine purchased.

Do you have a source for that?

When I visited our favorite French restaurant in Boston immediately after that, the place was like a tomb - I think there was only one other table occupied. The restaurant went under shortly thereafter.

[Coito ergo sum]

I don't think it's the ability to speak a foreign language that is the case here. Mr. Huntsman speaks Mandarin Chinese, and I think most people, even the most knuckle-dragging Republicans, would consider that to be a big plus. George W. Bush spoke Spanish. It's the particular language: French. At this time in US history, it invites a certain amount of antipathy among right-wingers.

Frenchness has always, not just this time in history, and not just among right-wingers, been viewed negatively, and Americans didn't invent it. We got it from the Brits.

But, it is correct, it's not the knowledge of another language that is the issue. It's the Frenchness. The French and France have an air about them of effete snobbery, and an attitude of superiority.

We can't help it if the beauty of our language, not to mention the superiority of our culture and achievements just make the rest of the world feel inferior.

Much as the Id-driven brute inside me would like to take issue with your post, I think there's a kernel of truth to be found somewhere in there (at least about the language part). When I was 12 I had the option of choosing French or Spanish as the language I'd like to learn in school. I picked French. Between the two, it seemed much more intelligent, more cultured, and I knew there'd be more girls in those classes than in the Spanish ones.

Nothing bad to say about Spanish as a literary language... writers like Cervantez, Garcia-Marquez and Garcia-Lorca have much to commend them... and unless you are intimately involved in Northern and Western Africa, I suspect Spanish is a much more common and useful communication tool.

French is maybe 6th or 7th on my list of world languages worthwhile knowing. I'd say it goes:

English
Spanish
Mandarin Chinese
Portuguese
Russian
Arabic
German
...maybe French then. But, I'm thinking that Norwegian (Nynosk), or maybe Jive would be more useful....

[Coito ergo sum]

Frenchness has always, not just this time in history, and not just among right-wingers, been viewed negatively, and Americans didn't invent it. We got it from the Brits.

But, it is correct, it's not the knowledge of another language that is the issue. It's the Frenchness. The French and France have an air about them of effete snobbery, and an attitude of superiority.

It's a strange one - if it wasn't for the French, the Revolution would not have succeeded.

Yep, but that was a different time. We weren't even a country yet. The Brits hated the French with unbridled passion, and we were trying to throw off their yoke.

And, the Revolution wouldn't have succeeded for a variety of factors outside of the control of the paltry Continental Army. By all rights, militarily we would not have won. George Washington lost more battles than he won. We had the combination of economic factors, as well as the fact that the England had to attend to other matters, France included. We were outgunned - Britain had about 7.5 million people to draw from and the American colonies only had about 2.5 million. The Brits had the greatest navy in the world. The Brits had a huge professional army in the colonies - 50,000 Brit regulars, and about 30,000 each of Germans and American loyalists. The Americans were outgunned, outmanned, outtrained, and out-equipped.

Still, I doubt if the French care what Amerikans think of 'em.......and militarly nothing to worry about either - simply because the average yank couldn't find the USA on a world map, let alone a corner of Europeland.......

I'm sure the French don't care what anyone, Americans included, think of them. They're too busy overestimating themselves. As for the claim that Americans are stupid - I've yet to see any proof that the common European is any smarter. People are idiots. And they're idiots in France too. To be blind to that fact is evidence in and of itself....

And, replacing the "c" with a "k" in the word America is proof positive.

[Coito ergo sum]

The right wing in this country has gone to a lot of effort to demonize French over the years as effete snobbish pansies (does the phrase "cheese eating surrender monkey" ring any bells?) - this is just the natural progression of expressing their core values: myopia, nationalism, and anti-intellectualism. Based on their last few candidates, the requirement seems to be that you went to college but didn't learn anything there.

Remember when France openly opposed the Iraq war with it's speech at the UN? Republican members of Congress were outraged, calling them traitors and no longer an ally, and very loudly insisted that they no longer call the french fries served at the congressional canteen french fries and renamed them "freedom fries". However, the fine dining establishments all over Washington D.C. saw no decrease in the amount of expensive French wine purchased.

Fucking hypocrites.

On what basis do you claim that Republicans made up the fine French wine buying public? Is there some notion that Democrats in Washington, DC is da po' folk?

[Coito ergo sum]

There are real dumbasses who don't understand that an ally's job is to help you not do something stupid... slavisshly following you is what you expect from client states.

Very true, but France's behavior relative to Iraq was abysmal. Pull the rug out from under the U.S. after assurances were made, all to protect their own deals with the Iraq despot was not "helping [the US] not do something stupid." It was lining their own pockets by means of violations of international law (violations of the UN oil-for-food program, and sales of nuclear technology to the Hussein regime, among other things).

Don't for a minute think that France was any more motivated by altruism and morality than anyone else. They were behaving in their national interest, and their national interest in 2002, they perceived, was to fuck the U.S. Fair enough. But, let's not sugar coat it and let's not pretend that France was just trying to do the right thing.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Epic derail.

[Coito ergo sum]

Perhaps a split into: "The French: How Bad Do They Really Suck?" Thread is in order...

[Mysturji]

Merkins don't eat keesh.
I'm a Canadian living in Britain. I have no "piece" nor "ammo". Just a second dan in jujitsu.