trouble

[FBM]

But...without evidence for god's existence, one must believe that s/he exists in order to feel the urge to approach him, eh? What am I missing here?

[Seth]

Well, it's good to say I don't believe in...
If, of course, the measure of truth, we think, is found in our world.
But that adopts a posture. It is a physical stance almost.

You meant "physical stance" metaphorically? Nose up in the air? Skepticism = arrogance?

I suppose so, but I wanted also to emphasise the energy that needs to be put into certain beliefs that help to deny, rather than not believe in, a god. It makes a person a caricuture, It will be driven and sustained through a physical postiure.

I'm not sure how this is the case. Skeptics could see those who go to extremes to defend their beliefs in things for which there is no evidence as a caricature or parody of the modern, post-Englightenment human.

On the other hand, I think you have a point when you mention those who dogmatically assert knowledge of the absence of a divine creator. I think that's over-reaching, going beyond what the evidence (lack of it, really) supports. A careful skeptic, I think, would say something more along the lines of, 'Without evidence, there is no reason to think that a diety exists', rather than 'There is no god.' That is, it's one thing to say, "I don't think there is a divine creator" as an opinion, and yet another to say dogmatically "There is no god" as if it were knowledge.

Indeed. I believe I've been saying just that for some time now. And I've been insisting that the only rational and logical statement that any atheist or skeptic can make about the existence or non-existence of God is "I don't know."

The dogmatic Atheist claim that "there is no God" is in fact a religious belief indicative of the presence of a religious Atheist. It's as much a religious belief based on a complete lack of evidence, and therefore an exercise in faith every bit as much as the theist's claim that God exists.

[Robert_S]

Disbelief in The Great Zxhishmatica based on no evidence for it or belief in The Great Zxhishmatica based on no evidence for it.

Both of these require the same amount of faith.

[FBM]

I think so, too. There's nothing wrong with having an opinion, but promoting it and defending it as Truth, however, is sloppy, at best.

[Rum]

I can't believe this thread exists but by golly it seems to, cos I have seen it!

I can't believe that god exists, though I don't actually 'know', however as I haven't seem it or any trace of it by golly I don't!

[FBM]

Nor do I, Rum, but intellectual honesty forces me to admit that I don't know for a fact that there is no god or afterlife or whatnot. Until some evidence is presented for them, it's perfectly reasonable for me to live as though they don't exist, without making any dogmatic metaphysical claims along the way. As in Pyrrhonist skepticism, I mean.

[Robert_S]

Where your eyes don't go a filthy scarecrow waves its broomstick arms and does a parody of each unconscious thing you do.
When you turn around to look it's gone behind you: on its face it's wearing your confused expression where your eyes don't go

Do you believe that statement is false?

[Pappa]

I'm having trouble. What, exactly, does an atheist NOT believe in?

Cracks in pavements? Spiritual dads? Harry Potter on a broomstick?
Huh... what? exactly?

http://bit.ly/srSadw

[Rum]

Nor do I, Rum, but intellectual honesty forces me to admit that I don't know for a fact that there is no god or afterlife or whatnot. Until some evidence is presented for them, it's perfectly reasonable for me to live as though they don't exist, without making any dogmatic metaphysical claims along the way. As in Pyrrhonist skepticism, I mean.

My position exactly.

[Jesus_of_Nazareth]

Atheism is simply a name created by the Woo Peddlers (they do a lot of that) to mark out non-beleivers. It's the PC word for Heretic.

I don't beleive the darkside of the Moon is made of Cheese, and that anyone who genuinely thinks so is a class A looney / gullible idiot - no one has given me a name for that non-belief.........well, not yet!

[FBM]

Nor do I, Rum, but intellectual honesty forces me to admit that I don't know for a fact that there is no god or afterlife or whatnot. Until some evidence is presented for them, it's perfectly reasonable for me to live as though they don't exist, without making any dogmatic metaphysical claims along the way. As in Pyrrhonist skepticism, I mean.

My position exactly.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Nor do I, Rum, but intellectual honesty forces me to admit that I don't know for a fact that there is no god or afterlife or whatnot. Until some evidence is presented for them, it's perfectly reasonable for me to live as though they don't exist, without making any dogmatic metaphysical claims along the way. As in Pyrrhonist skepticism, I mean.

My position exactly.

I don't make claims, I challenge the claims others make. "What proof do you have that any god or gods exist?"

[Ronja]

Nor do I, Rum, but intellectual honesty forces me to admit that I don't know for a fact that there is no god or afterlife or whatnot. Until some evidence is presented for them, it's perfectly reasonable for me to live as though they don't exist, without making any dogmatic metaphysical claims along the way. As in Pyrrhonist skepticism, I mean.

My position exactly.

+1

[Audley Strange]

I don't believe that the physical universe was created by sentient entity.

You mean your dad?

No, my father did not create the physical universe, it pre-dated him by quite a bit, nor is it necessary to believe in him. I currently have evidence for both those statements that makes belief unnecessary. While there is circumstantial evidence in the form of writings that suggest the physical universe was created by a sentient entity, I find them unconvincing enough not to believe them until they become evident. Others that do believe them may turn out to be correct, though their descriptions of the concept of "God" seems so nebulous and varied that it remains implausible to me.

I am happy therefore to dismiss it.

[apophenia]

“He who is unaware of his ignorance will only be misled by his knowledge” — Richard Whately


Maybe I'm not your perfect kind
Maybe I'm not what you had in mind
Maybe we're just killing time

You with your silky words
And your eyes of green and blue
You with your steel beliefs
That don't match anything you do
It was so much easier before you became you