The Fatal Flaw of Communism - by Frank Zappa

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Beatsong
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Re: The Fatal Flaw of Communism - by Frank Zappa

Post by Beatsong » Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:10 pm

surreptitious57 wrote: Most wars in history have been
caused by and fought by men - most
crime in history has been perpetrated by
men as well so therefore claiming that both
sexes are equally sensible is a non starter far as
the actual evidence happens to be. However we can
not actually help it sometimes - since we produce far more
testosterone than women - which increase our natural levels of
aggression which unfortunately can then manifest itself in ways not
exactly conducive to The Golden Rule. Women too have a greater empathy
and compassion for others - most probably because of the maternal instinct - so
although it may be a generalisation to reference their greater sensibility the evidence
overall is actually in their favour. So not for nothing are they referred to as the gentler sex
Not to mention the fact that women are less likely to believe in spuriously invented "innate" gender
differences based on a random combination of pop psychology selective historical observation
and oversimplified misunderstanding of evolutionary theory. That makes them more
sensible - as for how I know they are like this I just made it up of course but it
must be true because you can read about it on the internet, and anyway
my mum was always kind and nurturing whereas dad was a bastard.
Also girls like pink whereas boys like blue which is not very
sensible considering blue shows the bloodstains
from all their rough play a lot more.

surreptitious57
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Re: The Fatal Flaw of Communism - by Frank Zappa

Post by surreptitious57 » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:00 pm

Beatsong wrote:
surreptitious57 wrote:
Most wars in history have been
caused by and fought by men - most
crime in history has been perpetrated by
men as well so therefore claiming that both
sexes are equally sensible is a non starter far as
the actual evidence happens to be. However we can
not actually help it sometimes - since we produce far more
testosterone than women - which increase our natural levels of
aggression which unfortunately can then manifest itself in ways not
exactly conducive to The Golden Rule. Women too have a greater empathy
and compassion for others - most probably because of the maternal instinct - so
although it may be a generalisation to reference their greater sensibility the evidence
overall is actually in their favour. So not for nothing are they referred to as the gentler sex

Not to mention the fact that women are less likely to believe in spuriously invented innate gender
differences based on a random combination of pop psychology selective historical observation
and oversimplified misunderstanding of evolutionary theory. That makes them more
sensible - as for how I know they are like this I just made it up of course but it
must be true because you can read about it on the internet, and anyway
my mum was always kind and nurturing whereas dad was a bastard
Also girls like pink whereas boys like blue which is not very
sensible considering blue shows the bloodstains
from all their rough play a lot more
Well you could be right Beat baby but I would not
mind a world that was run by women - I mean let s face
it - how much worse could it possibly be ? [ And apologies for
referencing innate gender differences - pop psychology - selective
historical observation - and what was that other one - a misunderstanding
of evolutionary theory ] - by the way you the one from Rat Skep who has that nice
avatar of our future Prime Minister ? I bet you can t wait to see him elected - not long now
A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN

surreptitious57
Posts: 1057
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:07 am

Re: The Fatal Flaw of Communism - by Frank Zappa

Post by surreptitious57 » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:00 pm

Beatsong wrote:
surreptitious57 wrote:
Most wars in history have been
caused by and fought by men - most
crime in history has been perpetrated by
men as well so therefore claiming that both
sexes are equally sensible is a non starter far as
the actual evidence happens to be. However we can
not actually help it sometimes - since we produce far more
testosterone than women - which increase our natural levels of
aggression which unfortunately can then manifest itself in ways not
exactly conducive to The Golden Rule. Women too have a greater empathy
and compassion for others - most probably because of the maternal instinct - so
although it may be a generalisation to reference their greater sensibility the evidence
overall is actually in their favour. So not for nothing are they referred to as the gentler sex

Not to mention the fact that women are less likely to believe in spuriously invented innate gender
differences based on a random combination of pop psychology selective historical observation
and oversimplified misunderstanding of evolutionary theory. That makes them more
sensible - as for how I know they are like this I just made it up of course but it
must be true because you can read about it on the internet, and anyway
my mum was always kind and nurturing whereas dad was a bastard
Also girls like pink whereas boys like blue which is not very
sensible considering blue shows the bloodstains
from all their rough play a lot more
Well you could be right Beat baby but I would not
mind a world that was run by women - I mean let s face
it - how much worse could it possibly be ? [ And apologies for
referencing innate gender differences - pop psychology - selective
historical observation - and what was that other one - a misunderstanding
of evolutionary theory ] - by the way you the one from Rat Skep who has that nice
avatar of our future Prime Minister ? I bet you can t wait to see him elected - not long now
A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN

Beatsong
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Re: The Fatal Flaw of Communism - by Frank Zappa

Post by Beatsong » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:24 pm

surreptitious57 wrote: Well you could be right Beat baby but I would not
mind a world that was run by women - I mean let s face
it - how much worse could it possibly be ? [ And apologies for
referencing innate gender differences - pop psychology - selective
historical observation - and what was that other one - a misunderstanding
of evolutionary theory ] - by the way you the one from Rat Skep who has that nice
avatar of our future Prime Minister ? I bet you can t wait to see him elected - not long now
How much worse? You kidding? In a world run by women we would all have to own at least
50 pairs of shoes, watch crap romantic chick flicks all the time and spend a
quarter of every month ranting and rampaging like uncontrollable
psychopaths. Not to mention the lavender bath salts and the
facts that every act of coitus would by law have to
preceeded by at least four hours of foreplay.
Yes there is only one Beatsong! However
the avatar is purely ironic.

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Re: The Fatal Flaw of Communism - by Frank Zappa

Post by mistermack » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:27 pm

The fatal flaw in capitalism is monopolies. And monopolies are growing and getting more and more common. Not in theory, not in the bullshit that governments feed us, but in practice.

When you get a small number of giant companies dominating the "market", what you really get is a monopoly. They don't compete, they just "align". And nobody can prove collusion in most cases, because they don't need to.

All they have to do is watch each other closely, and do as the others do, and you have an effective monopoly. They can bump up prices, and massively increase directors' salaries and pensions, and their "competitors" can do the same, and nobody is big enough to come in anew and shake them up.
If they try, they just get crushed.

So true capitalism, with true competition, is on the way out.
While there is a market for shit, there will be assholes to supply it.

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Re: The Fatal Flaw of Communism - by Frank Zappa

Post by Seth » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:46 pm

mistermack wrote:The fatal flaw in capitalism is monopolies. And monopolies are growing and getting more and more common. Not in theory, not in the bullshit that governments feed us, but in practice.
Nope. In fact under capitalism there are fewer and fewer monopolies because no monopoly can exist without direct government and legislative support barring competition. In fact, monopolies exist mostly in socialist and especially communist countries because the government owns the means of production and doesn't like any competition.
When you get a small number of giant companies dominating the "market", what you really get is a monopoly. They don't compete, they just "align". And nobody can prove collusion in most cases, because they don't need to.
Nonsense. That's just dominant market share, not a monopoly. You don't understand the meaning of the word "monopoly." It actually means "exclusive ownership through legal privilege, command of supply, or concerted action."
All they have to do is watch each other closely, and do as the others do, and you have an effective monopoly. They can bump up prices, and massively increase directors' salaries and pensions, and their "competitors" can do the same, and nobody is big enough to come in anew and shake them up.
Why would they do that? Companies compete with each other for market share and there are plenty of laws against collusion and price fixing. There's no monopoly on earth at the moment, not even for diamonds. Just because there are a few large companies who can best serve consumer need through economies of scale does not a monopoly make I'm afraid.

The laws of supply and demand control attempts at monopoly because if the monopolists raise their prices to make additional profits, consumers buy less and competitors can undercut them and take market share away. Capitalism and free markets make it nearly impossible for any non-government monopoly to exist because there is always someone out there who is willing to serve the need at a lower price than a big company that thinks it can ignore competition and set prices where it pleases.

And in the end, if consumers don't like the dominant market share of a particular company (like, let's say GM) then they will buy from someone else and GM will go under...oh, wait, that's exactly what almost happened, except for the fact that GOVERNMENT intervened, defrauded the secured investors, bailed out the company and gave it to the unions. You want your monopoly, look no further than government because that's where they originate and are sustained.
If they try, they just get crushed.
Not if they can do it faster, better and cheaper. That's why Japanese car makers now hold a dominant market share in the US. The Detroit car makers thought they were invincible, but they weren't.
So true capitalism, with true competition, is on the way out.
Nah. Just have to keep government from trying to pick economic winners and losers in the markets and restrict it to it's appropriate role as policeman of honest trade.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

surreptitious57
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Re: The Fatal Flaw of Communism - by Frank Zappa

Post by surreptitious57 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:14 am

Beatsong wrote:
surreptitious57 wrote:
Well you could be right Beat baby but I would not
mind a world that was run by women - I mean let s face
it - how much worse could it possibly be ? [ And apologies for
referencing innate gender differences - pop psychology - selective
historical observation - and what was that other one - a misunderstanding
of evolutionary theory ] - by the way you the one from Rat Skep who has that nice
avatar of our future Prime Minister ? I bet you can t wait to see him elected - not long now
How much worse ? You kidding ? In a world run by women we would all have to own at least
50 pairs of shoes watch crap romantic chick flicks all the time and spend a
quarter of every month ranting and rampaging like uncontrollable
psychopaths Not to mention the lavender bath salts and the
facts that every act of coitus would by law have to
preceeded by at least four hours of foreplay
Yes there is only one Beatsong ! However
the avatar is purely ironic
You walk into a bar and get
free drinks all night long - you
marry a rich man and never have
to work again - you can have multiple
orgasms at the drop of a hat - you can get
anything done anytime anywhere just by emphasising
your assets - if you have no assets a nice man in gloves and
scrubs will give you some - you want to be taken seriously you just
dye your hair brown and then back again to its natural colour when you
don t - you telling me that that lifestyle has no appeal then me no believe you
A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN

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Re: The Fatal Flaw of Communism - by Frank Zappa

Post by apophenia » Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:05 am

Seth wrote:Not if they can do it faster, better and cheaper. That's why Japanese car makers now hold a dominant market share in the US. The Detroit car makers thought they were invincible, but they weren't.
I won't swear on a stack of bibles that my math is correct, but according to the table labeled Sales and Share of Total Market by Manufacturer here at the Wall street Journal online, Japanese share of the U.S. automotive sales market for December 2011 was 32%, while the share held by U.S. auto manufacturers is 47%.

Let me know if you find my math to be in error.


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surreptitious57
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Re: The Fatal Flaw of Communism - by Frank Zappa

Post by surreptitious57 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:13 am

apophenia wrote:
Seth wrote:
Not if they can do it faster, better and cheaper. That s why Japanese car makers now hold a dominant market share in the U S The Detroit car makers thought they were invincible, but they weren t
I won't swear on a stack of bibles that my math is correct but according to the table labeled Sales and Share of Total Market by Manufacturer here at the Wall street Journal online, Japanese share of the U S automotive sales market for December 2011 was 32 % while the share held by U S auto manufacturers is 47 %

Let me know if you find my math to be in error
American Share - 46. 77 % [ 581, 817 ] - Japanese Share - 42. 13 % [ 524, 095 ] - Total Market - [ 1, 243, 965 ]
A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN

Daan
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Re: The Fatal Flaw of Communism - by Frank Zappa

Post by Daan » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:02 am

surreptitious57 wrote:Most wars in history have been
caused by and fought by men - most
crime in history has been perpetrated by
men as well so therefore claiming that both
sexes are equally sensible is a non starter far as
the actual evidence happens to be. However we can
not actually help it sometimes - since we produce far more
testosterone than women - which increase our natural levels of
aggression which unfortunately can then manifest itself in ways not
exactly conducive to The Golden Rule. Women too have a greater empathy
and compassion for others - most probably because of the maternal instinct - so
although it may be a generalisation to reference their greater sensibility the evidence
overall is actually in their favour. So not for nothing are they referred to as the gentler sex
In my experience, many women are mean and manipulative, treating men as they treat cloths in a shop. Women often fall for the aggressive type of men. Bloody dictators were graved by women. A nice anecdote i read in the newspaper was about the wife of Joseph Goebbels, who saw her future husband at first at a rally of the Nazi Party. He was small and limped, and she didn't like him at first, until he began his hate speech, and that was the moment she wanted him. Joseph Fritzl, who locked up and raped his daughter for decades got dozens of love letters in prison. the world is totally fucked up, and women as well.

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Re: The Fatal Flaw of Communism - by Frank Zappa

Post by Daan » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:05 am

Tero wrote:
Daan wrote:
Santa_Claus wrote:Capitalism has no heart - Communism has no brain.
Communism has no heart as well. Just as cold as capitalism. All political ideologies lack heart. Though, maybe social-democracy does have some heart, don know.
That will eventually be the problem. They want to save everybody, like Christians. There will not be room for all in the lifeboat. See Linkola in wiki.

ok HERE
http://www.penttilinkola.com/pentti_lin ... anslation/
Christians don't try to save everybody, but as many as they can. The bible predicts that at the day of judgment, there will still be some people who aren't christian, and they will be punished.

Also communists didn't try to save everyone. Stalin and Mao started famines on purpose and sacrificed many people in their wars. Communists aren't much unlike westerners, they strife for a good-working society, only the methods differ a little.

surreptitious57
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Re: The Fatal Flaw of Communism - by Frank Zappa

Post by surreptitious57 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:39 am

Daan wrote:
surreptitious57 wrote:
Most wars in history have been
caused by and fought by men - most
crime in history has been perpetrated by
men as well so therefore claiming that both
sexes are equally sensible is a non starter far as
the actual evidence happens to be. However we can
not actually help it sometimes - since we produce far more
testosterone than women - which increase our natural levels of
aggression which unfortunately can then manifest itself in ways not
exactly conducive to The Golden Rule. Women too have a greater empathy
and compassion for others - most probably because of the maternal instinct - so
although it may be a generalisation to reference their greater sensibility the evidence
overall is actually in their favour. So not for nothing are they referred to as the gentler sex
In my experience, many women are mean and manipulative, treating men as they treat cloths in a shop. Women often fall for the aggressive type of men. Bloody dictators were graved by women. A nice anecdote I read in the newspaper was about the wife of Joseph Goebbels, who saw her future husband at first at a rally of the Nazi Party. He was small and limped, and she didn t like him at first until he began his hate speech, and that was the moment she wanted him. Joseph Fritzl who locked up and raped his daughter for decades got dozens of love letters in prison. The world is totally fucked up, and women as well
Goebbels was in the bunker with his wife and
their six children when Berlin was ready to fall and
she gave each of them a cyanide capsule before taking
the same herself and though this was an act of desperation
she should have let them live but is easy for me to say. And Hitler
was more worried about his dog dying [ cyanide too ] than anything else
A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN

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Re: The Fatal Flaw of Communism - by Frank Zappa

Post by Coito ergo sum » Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:32 pm

Santa_Claus wrote:Capitalism has no heart - Communism has no brain...or heart
:fix:

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Re: The Fatal Flaw of Communism - by Frank Zappa

Post by Coito ergo sum » Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:38 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Coito ergo sum wrote:
Rum wrote:
Coito ergo sum wrote:
Songs about tits and wet tee shirts are misogynistic ?
Not necessarily but Zappa s overall attitude to women was pretty clear and didn t seem to change much over the years. He was dismissive sexist and arrogant about the more sensible sex
Women aren t more sensible, or less sensible, than men By saying that you re either being sexist toward men or more likely condescending toward women
Most wars in history have been
caused by and fought by men - most
crime in history has been perpetrated by
men as well so therefore claiming that both
sexes are equally sensible is a non starter far as
the actual evidence happens to be. However we can
not actually help it sometimes - since we produce far more
testosterone than women - which increase our natural levels of
aggression which unfortunately can then manifest itself in ways not
exactly conducive to The Golden Rule. Women too have a greater empathy
and compassion for others - most probably because of the maternal instinct - so
although it may be a generalisation to reference their greater sensibility the evidence
overall is actually in their favour. So not for nothing are they referred to as the gentler sex
The fact that most wars in history have been caused and fought by men is merely a function
of power. The fact is that women's increase in power and influence has not led to a
decrease in the frequency or reduction in severity of wars. The same is true for
crime, which women tend to commit different sorts of crime, but as their
power and influence increase, so too does their criminality. Testosterone
levels have not been shown to cause crime. There is no proof that
women have "greater empathy and compassion" and in some
instances, like when judging a woman in court, they have
been shown to be less empathetic than men toward the
accused woman. Referring to them as the gentler
sex, as you have is no less sexist, and condesc-
ending than referring to them as the "weaker"
sex, or the "fairer" sex. It's the same
shit upside down.

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Re: The Fatal Flaw of Communism - by Frank Zappa

Post by Coito ergo sum » Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:41 pm

Beatsong wrote:
surreptitious57 wrote: Most wars in history have been
caused by and fought by men - most
crime in history has been perpetrated by
men as well so therefore claiming that both
sexes are equally sensible is a non starter far as
the actual evidence happens to be. However we can
not actually help it sometimes - since we produce far more
testosterone than women - which increase our natural levels of
aggression which unfortunately can then manifest itself in ways not
exactly conducive to The Golden Rule. Women too have a greater empathy
and compassion for others - most probably because of the maternal instinct - so
although it may be a generalisation to reference their greater sensibility the evidence
overall is actually in their favour. So not for nothing are they referred to as the gentler sex
Not to mention the fact that women are less likely to believe in spuriously invented "innate" gender
differences based on a random combination of pop psychology selective historical observation
and oversimplified misunderstanding of evolutionary theory. That makes them more
sensible - as for how I know they are like this I just made it up of course but it
must be true because you can read about it on the internet, and anyway
my mum was always kind and nurturing whereas dad was a bastard.
Also girls like pink whereas boys like blue which is not very
sensible considering blue shows the bloodstains
from all their rough play a lot more.
There is a problem with your basic premise that women are less likely to believe spurious things. Their greater religiosity (both percentages, and degrees to which such beliefs are held steadfastly) are greater than men's. Does that make them more "sensible?"

I am with the balance of your post. :lol:

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