Woman Shoots/kills knife-wielding intruder.

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Re: Woman Shoots/kills knife-wielding intruder.

Post by hackenslash » Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:35 am

Seth wrote:hoplophobes
Thanks for introducing me to this word, which is wankery of the highest order, suggesting that fear of deadly firearms is somehow fucking irrational. Brilliant.
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Re: Woman Shoots/kills knife-wielding intruder.

Post by JacksSmirkingRevenge » Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:37 am

surreptitious57 wrote:Right you are Gallstones
Well I believe in the right of
self defence to protect person
or property as under English law
But I do not believe everyone has an
automatic right to bear arms though and
that may be because we do not yet possess
a Constitution like our American friends and are
less gun orientated than they are. But anyway we do
have the right to use reasonable force when required to
do so. What we do not have the right is to kill an intruder
after they have been apprehended for that is just plain murder

Some think that they have no human rights but they do. Just because
one is breaking the law does not give you the right to break it as well for
you are just as guilty. Remember under the law everyone must be treated equal
However, if there are no witnesses and one has the presence of mind to make it look like there was a struggle - spatter patterns up the walls etc... :whistle:
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Re: Woman Shoots/kills knife-wielding intruder.

Post by MrJonno » Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:37 am

hackenslash wrote:
Seth wrote:hoplophobes
Thanks for introducing me to this word, which is wankery of the highest order, suggesting that fear of deadly firearms is somehow fucking irrational. Brilliant.
It's a word made up by gun nuts, didnt exist until a couple of decades ago. It's certainly not a medical term
When only criminals carry guns the police know exactly who to shoot!

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Re: Woman Shoots/kills knife-wielding intruder.

Post by Clinton Huxley » Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:13 pm

MrJonno wrote:
hackenslash wrote:
Seth wrote:hoplophobes
Thanks for introducing me to this word, which is wankery of the highest order, suggesting that fear of deadly firearms is somehow fucking irrational. Brilliant.
It's a word made up by gun nuts, didnt exist until a couple of decades ago. It's certainly not a medical term
Aye, 'tis the favourite perjorative of your average hoplomaniac
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Re: Woman Shoots/kills knife-wielding intruder.

Post by Coito ergo sum » Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:35 pm

Gallstones wrote:
Psychoserenity wrote:I think it's all a little wired, but I don't know if it is, or if it's just because I'm not used to American news. The reporter seems to be talking about it as if it's a happy story - and getting her to pose with the shotgun - what the fuck is that about?
People want to see the gun.
I've also read enough British "news" reports to know to an absolute certainty that the arrogance and conceit expressed by Brits that their population does not salivate just as much as Americans for gratuitous and sensational stories of this kind is unwarranted. There is a kind of cognitive dissonance on this matter, and perhaps its an extension of British class-based pomposity that considers Americans and others to be vulgar and lower class by definition.
Last edited by Coito ergo sum on Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Woman Shoots/kills knife-wielding intruder.

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:37 pm

Daily Mail. 'nuff said.
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Re: Woman Shoots/kills knife-wielding intruder.

Post by Coito ergo sum » Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:41 pm

Seth wrote:
Ian wrote:
Bella Fortuna wrote:
Warren Dew wrote:More details, maybe even true:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ancer.html
Weird - she's 18, and that photo of the husband looks like he was 30 back in 1979... :?
Close - the husband was in his fifties. And they'd been married for two years, i.e. since she was 16.

Some parts of this country may as well be another planet... :?
Hey, at 16 she's ripe for breeding, with lots of fresh eggs and plenty of stamina to plow the field, cut the wood, cook dinner and ride cock. And at 50 he's a proven genetic survivor and provider, so it's all perfectly natural and evolutionary and junk...
It's likely not a specifically evolved trait. What evolved was fertility at puberty, which is as low as 11 ish sometimes. Evolution takes no notice of morality or cultural conventions or even notions of consent and rape. Getting pregnant at the age of 11, 12, 13, etc. was simply good enough to allow genes to continue to be passed down from generation to generation, in conjunction with all other forces impacting such allele transmission rates. Some animals are breeding in days, some in weeks, some in months, some in years. As for the cooking, cutting, etc., I think you're confusing the evolution of culture with genetic or biological evolution.

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Re: Woman Shoots/kills knife-wielding intruder.

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:44 pm

The achievement of menarch was, for many cultures, the signal that a female was ready to get married/have a mate. Biblical "morality" was forced on that later. (Although I don't find "age of consent" in the Bible, perhaps because the damn thing makes me woozy when I try to read it.)
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Re: Woman Shoots/kills knife-wielding intruder.

Post by Coito ergo sum » Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:46 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:Right you are Gallstones
Well I believe in the right of
self defence to protect person
or property as under English law
But I do not believe everyone has an
automatic right to bear arms though and
that may be because we do not yet possess
a Constitution like our American friends and are
less gun orientated than they are. But anyway we do
have the right to use reasonable force when required to
do so. What we do not have the right is to kill an intruder
after they have been apprehended for that is just plain murder
Some think that they have no human rights but they do. Just because
one is breaking the law does not give you the right to break it as well for
you are just as guilty. Remember under the law everyone must be treated equal
In all fairness, the U.S. obtained its right to bear arms from English constitutional law, derived from Magna Carta, the English Bills of Rights, the Glorious Revolution, etc. and etc.

Note - whatever Europeans may think, it is not allowable in the US for an American to kill an already apprehended intruder either. That would be murder, or manslaughter, depending on the state of mind of the person doing the killing.

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Re: Woman Shoots/kills knife-wielding intruder.

Post by Coito ergo sum » Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:48 pm

hackenslash wrote:
Seth wrote:hoplophobes
Thanks for introducing me to this word, which is wankery of the highest order, suggesting that fear of deadly firearms is somehow fucking irrational. Brilliant.
It can be.

Being fearful when confronted with firearms is perfectly natural. Being fearful or becoming enraged at the mere mention or sight of them, that would seem to me to be a form of "phobia." It would be like if someone started getting all quivery because they see a knife in a museum. It's a deadly weapon, but to get your panties in a bunch just because you see one can be irrational.

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Re: Woman Shoots/kills knife-wielding intruder.

Post by Coito ergo sum » Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:52 pm

MrJonno wrote:
hackenslash wrote:
Seth wrote:hoplophobes
Thanks for introducing me to this word, which is wankery of the highest order, suggesting that fear of deadly firearms is somehow fucking irrational. Brilliant.
It's a word made up by gun nuts, didnt exist until a couple of decades ago. It's certainly not a medical term
The "phobia" part is the medical issue. Some people have a phobia concerning fish. Is being afraid of fish always a phobia? No. When you're in the water with a shark, it's not irrational to fear the sharks, and they are fish. But, if someone shows you a cod, and you start backing away and getting all quivery about it, then that is a sign of a phobia. The same goes for knives, guns and other weapons.

And, if your objection is to "made up words," then be careful. Hoplophobia was first used in about 1976, and Homophobia was coined by George Weinberg about 10 years earlier. Is that a "made up word" by gay nuts? Didn't exist until decades ago? Certainly not a medical term?

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Re: Woman Shoots/kills knife-wielding intruder.

Post by Coito ergo sum » Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:53 pm

Clinton Huxley wrote:
MrJonno wrote:
hackenslash wrote:
Seth wrote:hoplophobes
Thanks for introducing me to this word, which is wankery of the highest order, suggesting that fear of deadly firearms is somehow fucking irrational. Brilliant.
It's a word made up by gun nuts, didnt exist until a couple of decades ago. It's certainly not a medical term
Aye, 'tis the favourite perjorative of your average hoplomaniac
hoplophile?

hoplophilia? :leave:

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Re: Woman Shoots/kills knife-wielding intruder.

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:55 pm

In 1969, in USN boot camp, I saw the first person I was ever aware of as having a phobia about guns. He was in my "company" and was ahead of me as we lined up for the rifle range. He kept muttering "nobody said anything about guns" over and over. When he got to the head of the line and they handed him a .22 rifle he simply turned and ran. Fought his way out of the building and took off. We never saw him again.
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Re: Woman Shoots/kills knife-wielding intruder.

Post by Coito ergo sum » Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:57 pm

Gawdzilla wrote:The achievement of menarch was, for many cultures, the signal that a female was ready to get married/have a mate. Biblical "morality" was forced on that later. (Although I don't find "age of consent" in the Bible, perhaps because the damn thing makes me woozy when I try to read it.)
Well, Biblical morality was that when girls hit puberty they were ready to marry. You won't find any concern with rape at all in the Bible, except from a perspective of property rights. There really wasn't any such a concept of rape and consent to sex in the old Jewish and Christian religions. If a man raped a girl and it was discovered, and she was unmarried, he had to marry her because she was now spoiled. The "you break it, you bought it" rule. And, if the girl was already married, then you'd be killed for your crime (against the man), and she'd be an adulteress.

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Re: Woman Shoots/kills knife-wielding intruder.

Post by klr » Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:58 pm

Coito ergo sum wrote:
MrJonno wrote:
hackenslash wrote:
Seth wrote:hoplophobes
Thanks for introducing me to this word, which is wankery of the highest order, suggesting that fear of deadly firearms is somehow fucking irrational. Brilliant.
It's a word made up by gun nuts, didnt exist until a couple of decades ago. It's certainly not a medical term
The "phobia" part is the medical issue. Some people have a phobia concerning fish. Is being afraid of fish always a phobia? No. When you're in the water with a shark, it's not irrational to fear the sharks, and they are fish. But, if someone shows you a cod, and you start backing away and getting all quivery about it, then that is a sign of a phobia. The same goes for knives, guns and other weapons.

And, if your objection is to "made up words," then be careful. Hoplophobia was first used in about 1976, and Homophobia was coined by George Weinberg about 10 years earlier. Is that a "made up word" by gay nuts? Didn't exist until decades ago? Certainly not a medical term?
It's not the "made up" word that I object to, more the nature of the "made up" definition. As you say, there are times where it's rational to be wary/afraid of weapons, and times when that should not be the case. One could argue all day about how and where the that divide lies, but the idea that those arguing for stricter gun controls are "irrationally afraid" of weapons is ... well, y'know.

[/gun control derail] :pardon:
Last edited by klr on Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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