And how much more it would cost if it was equipped with a 26 litre 12 cylinder engine delivering in excess of 2000 horsepower rather than a 6 litre unit topping out at 430. It seems like the 90% scaled 810 kilogram version is severely downsized in comparison to the approximately 2310 kilogram wartime versions in more ways than one. The kit plane is rather more a model than a reproduction.mistermack wrote:Not so silly then.Geoff wrote:The 90% is because they're using kits, supplied by Supermarine.
http://www.supermarineaircraft.com/About.htm
But it makes you wonder how a 100% kit would sell.
Twelve Spitfires, Absolutely Spiffing New
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Re: Twelve Spitfires, Absolutely Spiffing New
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Re: Twelve Spitfires, Absolutely Spiffing New
I agree with that. But I think a reproduction would be hugely expensive and a bit pointless as well, if there are originals still flying.Seraph wrote:And how much more it would cost if it was equipped with a 26 litre 12 cylinder engine delivering in excess of 2000 horsepower rather than a 6 litre unit topping out at 430. It seems like the 90% scaled 810 kilogram version is severely downsized in comparison to the approximately 2310 kilogram wartime versions in more ways than one. The kit plane is rather more a model than a reproduction.mistermack wrote:Not so silly then.Geoff wrote:The 90% is because they're using kits, supplied by Supermarine.
http://www.supermarineaircraft.com/About.htm
But it makes you wonder how a 100% kit would sell.
I was really talking about a model, but of the same dimensions as the original. Something that looks the same, but has modern internals. Like this 90% model, but at 100% size.
It wouldn't need a 26 litre engine, or 2000 hp, as we're not at war, and with today's technology, needn't cost a fortune to build.
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Re: Twelve Spitfires, Absolutely Spiffing New
I think the comparison of 810 kg with 2310 kg is a bit misleading, anyway.
Most of the difference would be engine weight, and that sort of performance wouldn't be needed in peacetime.
But modern materials save weight anyway. A 100% size model, with a smaller engine and modern construction, would naturally be far lighter than an original. If you scaled up one of these kit planes to 100% size, my guess would be about 1300 kg or less.
Most of the difference would be engine weight, and that sort of performance wouldn't be needed in peacetime.
But modern materials save weight anyway. A 100% size model, with a smaller engine and modern construction, would naturally be far lighter than an original. If you scaled up one of these kit planes to 100% size, my guess would be about 1300 kg or less.
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Re: Twelve Spitfires, Absolutely Spiffing New
Probably. The thing to consider is that a 10% reduction in all lengths equates to a 27.1% reduction in volume and weight - a considerable saving in materials and enabling a far smaller (and much cheaper) engine to power the aircraft.mistermack wrote:I imagine they went over and over the question of size.
But I think they ended up with the wrong answer.
One full-size one would be better than 12 at 90 percent.
And they could probably have built four or five full size ones for the same price as a dozen 90 percenters.
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Re: Twelve Spitfires, Absolutely Spiffing New
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Re: Twelve Spitfires, Absolutely Spiffing New
Look at the construction of the Hawker Hurricane.Gawdzilla wrote:Run out of paint did they?
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Re: Twelve Spitfires, Absolutely Spiffing New
You were there, you tell me.Pensioner wrote:Look at the construction of the Hawker Hurricane.Gawdzilla wrote:Run out of paint did they?
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Re: Twelve Spitfires, Absolutely Spiffing New
I was thinking of this as well, but then re-read the OP:Xamonas Chegwé wrote:Probably. The thing to consider is that a 10% reduction in all lengths equates to a 27.1% reduction in volume and weight - a considerable saving in materials and enabling a far smaller (and much cheaper) engine to power the aircraft.mistermack wrote:I imagine they went over and over the question of size.
But I think they ended up with the wrong answer.
One full-size one would be better than 12 at 90 percent.
And they could probably have built four or five full size ones for the same price as a dozen 90 percenters.
A "three-tonne original" implies a first generation Merlin-engined version - probably a Mk. I, Mk. V or Mk. IX. I don't know what the "Mk 26B" in the article refers to, because there was no such version. The last land-based version was the Mk. 24. Anyway, the later versions were much, much heavier....
When completed, each aircraft will weigh 810kg (1,782lb) and will be a 90% scale version of an original three-tonne Spitfire.
...
But anyway: 73% of 3 tonnes is c. 2.2 tonnes, whereas the replicas will weigh a little over a third that. The handling could be "interesting" ...
Note: The later versions were denoted by Indo-Arabic numerals, while all earlier versions used Roman numerals.
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Re: Twelve Spitfires, Absolutely Spiffing New
My assumptions are: -klr wrote:I was thinking of this as well, but then re-read the OP:Xamonas Chegwé wrote:Probably. The thing to consider is that a 10% reduction in all lengths equates to a 27.1% reduction in volume and weight - a considerable saving in materials and enabling a far smaller (and much cheaper) engine to power the aircraft.mistermack wrote:I imagine they went over and over the question of size.
But I think they ended up with the wrong answer.
One full-size one would be better than 12 at 90 percent.
And they could probably have built four or five full size ones for the same price as a dozen 90 percenters.
A "three-tonne original" implies a first generation Merlin-engined version - probably a Mk. I, Mk. V or Mk. IX. I don't know what the "Mk 26B" in the article refers to, because there was no such version. The last land-based version was the Mk. 24. Anyway, the later versions were much, much heavier....
When completed, each aircraft will weigh 810kg (1,782lb) and will be a 90% scale version of an original three-tonne Spitfire.
...
But anyway: 73% of 3 tonnes is c. 2.2 tonnes, whereas the replicas will weigh a little over a third that. The handling could be "interesting" ...
Note: The later versions were denoted by Indo-Arabic numerals, while all earlier versions used Roman numerals.
1. That the version number is a new one for the replicas - I am pretty sure that the last "proper" spit was Mk. 24 as you say but I am thinking that there may have been similar kit versions in the past... :duno:
2. That the added reduction in weight is due to the use of modern materials in construction - most notably, aluminium alloys in the engine, but possibly also carbon fibre struts, etc.
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You talk to God, you're religious. God talks to you, you're psychotic.
House MD
Who needs a meaning anyway, I'd settle anyday for a very fine view.
Sandy Denny
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Paco
Yes, yes. But first I need to show you this venomous fish!
Calilasseia
I think we should do whatever Pawiz wants.
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Re: Twelve Spitfires, Absolutely Spiffing New
Xamonas Chegwé wrote: ...
My assumptions are: -
1. That the version number is a new one for the replicas - I am pretty sure that the last "proper" spit was Mk. 24 as you say but I am thinking that there may have been similar kit versions in the past... :duno:
2. That the added reduction in weight is due to the use of modern materials in construction - most notably, aluminium alloys in the engine, but possibly also carbon fibre struts, etc.

Anyway, I did some Googling, and the "original" is a Mark IX. Plenty of pictures and detailed information here:
http://www.campbellaeroclassics.com/id56.html

I don't doubt that huge weight reductions are possible with newer materials, but it should make for huge differences in handling. Mostly for the better, if you read a "pilot report" from the same site:
http://www.campbellaeroclassics.com/id80.html
... just don't take her up in a gale-force wind.
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Re: Twelve Spitfires, Absolutely Spiffing New
God has no place within these walls, just like facts have no place within organized religion. - Superintendent Chalmers
It's not up to us to choose which laws we want to obey. If it were, I'd kill everyone who looked at me cock-eyed! - Rex Banner
The Bluebird of Happiness long absent from his life, Ned is visited by the Chicken of Depression. - Gary Larson

It's not up to us to choose which laws we want to obey. If it were, I'd kill everyone who looked at me cock-eyed! - Rex Banner
The Bluebird of Happiness long absent from his life, Ned is visited by the Chicken of Depression. - Gary Larson



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Re: Twelve Spitfires, Absolutely Spiffing New
Quite so, I was merely thinking out loud about just how massively different the Mk26s are in comparison to the originals they resemble in appearance.mistermack wrote:I agree with that. But I think a reproduction would be hugely expensive and a bit pointless as well, if there are originals still flying.Seraph wrote:And how much more it would cost if it was equipped with a 26 litre 12 cylinder engine delivering in excess of 2000 horsepower rather than a 6 litre unit topping out at 430. It seems like the 90% scaled 810 kilogram version is severely downsized in comparison to the approximately 2310 kilogram wartime versions in more ways than one. The kit plane is rather more a model than a reproduction.mistermack wrote:Not so silly then.Geoff wrote:The 90% is because they're using kits, supplied by Supermarine.
http://www.supermarineaircraft.com/About.htm
But it makes you wonder how a 100% kit would sell.
I was really talking about a model, but of the same dimensions as the original. Something that looks the same, but has modern internals. Like this 90% model, but at 100% size.
It wouldn't need a 26 litre engine, or 2000 hp, as we're not at war, and with today's technology, needn't cost a fortune to build.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould
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