Catholic church at it again. This time Holland.

[Seth]

...Now, in response to THAT statement, I expect you to argue something along the lines of "Yeah, but the Boy Scouts don't threaten you with hellfire and damnation if you quit." ...

The fucking Boy Scouts - being the intolerant religious fucks that they are - don't want atheists anyway.

So? It's a private club and you're not invited to join. If you don't want the religion, start another club of your own. What makes you think you have any right to judge the Boy Scouts and their policies or expect them to admit people whose beliefs are antithetical to the club's founding principles?

Pretty fucking arrogant of you to demand that people associate with you even if they don't want to. It's their constitutional right to discriminate against you because you're an Atheist, and they have pretty good cause to do so in my estimation.

Fuck off, Seth...

Er, no...You fuck off.

[Robert_S]

Wankfest circlejerk?

[Seth]

Wankfest circlejerk?

Beginning to look that way, isn't it?

Do we have a "fuck off...no YOU fuck off" forum similar to the "'tis/'tisn't" one?

[BrettA]

...Now, in response to THAT statement, I expect you to argue something along the lines of "Yeah, but the Boy Scouts don't threaten you with hellfire and damnation if you quit." ...

The fucking Boy Scouts - being the intolerant religious fucks that they are - don't want atheists anyway.

So? It's a private club and you're not invited to join. If you don't want the religion, start another club of your own. What makes you think you have any right to judge the Boy Scouts and their policies or expect them to admit people whose beliefs are antithetical to the club's founding principles?

Pretty fucking arrogant of you to demand that people associate with you even if they don't want to. It's their constitutional right to discriminate against you because you're an Atheist, and they have pretty good cause to do so in my estimation.

It's partly they're utterly disingenuous adverts and web site texts saying scouting "offers challenging programs for boys, girls and youth age 5-26 in thousands of individual groups in most cities and towns" and when asked, their completely laughable excuse that we "wouldn't want our kids to be involved" because of religious issues. They're bigots and liars and seem (rightfully) to be ashamed of that. Fuck 'em.

[Pappa]

Jesus Christ Jim, what the fuck is wrong with you?

Seth's point is valid and one he should be free to make without such abuse from you. Yet again, I think it's disgusting that a moderator is willing to talk to a member in such a way.

If you have such a problem with the whole of the Catholic Church, why are you so willing to personally profit from them as an institution by working in a Catholic school? [/devil's advocate]

[JimC]

Jesus Christ Jim, what the fuck is wrong with you?

Seth's point is valid and one he should be free to make without such abuse from you. Yet again, I think it's disgusting that a moderator is willing to talk to a member in such a way.

If you have such a problem with the whole of the Catholic Church, why are you so willing to personally profit from them as an institution by working in a Catholic school? [/devil's advocate]

Nonsense!

And thanks for all your hard work in recent weeks!

Fuck off!

[Robert_S]

It's a private club and you're not invited to join. If you don't want the religion, start another club of your own. What makes you think you have any right to judge the Boy Scouts and their policies or expect them to admit people whose beliefs are antithetical to the club's founding principles?

If they exclude on religious grounds, is that not the result of a judgement? Who judged first here?

[BrettA]

Ha, ha, ha! But things are 'looking up' for these fucking bigots from my perspective - scout membership in Canada was at 320,000 in the '60s and plummeted to 79,000 in 2006 - plus there's talk they may go bankrupt (financially, since they're morally bankrupt already). Cunts. I just hope .gov doesn't help with dollars.

Edit...

It's a private club and you're not invited to join. If you don't want the religion, start another club of your own. What makes you think you have any right to judge the Boy Scouts and their policies or expect them to admit people whose beliefs are antithetical to the club's founding principles?

If they exclude on religious grounds, is that not the result of a judgement? Who judged first here?

BrettA didn't write that drivel, Robert - please don't attribute it to me.

[Robert_S]

Ha, ha, ha! But things are 'looking up' for these fucking bigots from my perspective - scout membership in Canada was at 320,000 in the '60s and plummeted to 79,000 in 2006 - plus there's talk they may go bankrupt (financially, since they're morally bankrupt already). Cunts. I just hope .gov doesn't help with dollars.

Edit...

It's a private club and you're not invited to join. If you don't want the religion, start another club of your own. What makes you think you have any right to judge the Boy Scouts and their policies or expect them to admit people whose beliefs are antithetical to the club's founding principles?

If they exclude on religious grounds, is that not the result of a judgement? Who judged first here?

BrettA didn't write that drivel, Robert - please don't attribute it to me.

Oops, I borked the quotes. Sorry! I'll fix the original.

[Pappa]

And thanks for all your hard work in recent weeks!

You're welcome. It was my pleasure.

[Seth]

Jesus Christ Jim, what the fuck is wrong with you?

Seth's point is valid and one he should be free to make without such abuse from you. Yet again, I think it's disgusting that a moderator is willing to talk to a member in such a way.

If you have such a problem with the whole of the Catholic Church, why are you so willing to personally profit from them as an institution by working in a Catholic school? [/devil's advocate]

Oh, snap!

Is this factual information?

I'm certainly going to enjoy it if it is.

[Seth]

...Now, in response to THAT statement, I expect you to argue something along the lines of "Yeah, but the Boy Scouts don't threaten you with hellfire and damnation if you quit." ...

The fucking Boy Scouts - being the intolerant religious fucks that they are - don't want atheists anyway.

So? It's a private club and you're not invited to join. If you don't want the religion, start another club of your own. What makes you think you have any right to judge the Boy Scouts and their policies or expect them to admit people whose beliefs are antithetical to the club's founding principles?

Pretty fucking arrogant of you to demand that people associate with you even if they don't want to. It's their constitutional right to discriminate against you because you're an Atheist, and they have pretty good cause to do so in my estimation.

It's partly they're utterly disingenuous adverts and web site texts saying scouting "offers challenging programs for boys, girls and youth age 5-26 in thousands of individual groups in most cities and towns" and when asked, their completely laughable excuse that we "wouldn't want our kids to be involved" because of religious issues.

They do offer such opportunities, but it's a faith-based group that's not open to everyone.

They're bigots

No more so than you are. Indeed far less than you. They have their religious opinions and practices and they choose to segregate themselves from those who don't believe as they do. This is their right. They do not conceal their religious affiliation nor do they need to apologize for it. It's a private club. I'd think you'd appreciate the fact that they won't accept members who don't ascribe to their faith, because if they did, the next thing you'd be complaining about is that they are "proselytizing" your child and trying to convert him away from whatever YOUR religious beliefs are.

and liars

How, exactly are they "liars?" They offer exciting adventures for boys, but they limit membership to those of the Christian faith, and they say so right up front. They are not required to offer exciting adventures to everyone, it's an exclusive club and your kids don't qualify. Oh well, too bad, so sad. Go start your own Atheist adventure club.

and seem (rightfully) to be ashamed of that.

They're not ashamed of it.

Fuck 'em.

Sounds like childish jealousy to me.

[Seth]

It's a private club and you're not invited to join. If you don't want the religion, start another club of your own. What makes you think you have any right to judge the Boy Scouts and their policies or expect them to admit people whose beliefs are antithetical to the club's founding principles?

If they exclude on religious grounds, is that not the result of a judgement? Who judged first here?

They did, as is their right. One of the principles of constitutional liberty and freedom of association is the freedom to DIS-associate from someone, or some group whom you find to be morally or ethically corrupt or whom you simply do not wish to associate with, for any reason or no reason at all.

Just as nobody requires you to associate with Catholics or pedophiles, the Boy Scouts have every right to refuse to associate with persons, including children, who represent political or religious views that are in opposition to their own.

It's a private club that has religious belief requirements. Get over it. Start your own Atheist boy's club if you like.

It seems like the opprobrium being heaped on the Boy Scouts is based in jealousy and nothing more. They have the largest, oldest, and best boys adventure club on earth, and tens of millions of boys have enjoyed participating in Scouting for more than a hundred years, but it's not a club that's open to Atheists, which makes them angry that they are being discriminated against. Well, tough shit. Atheists don't have a right not to be discriminated against when it comes to membership in private organizations like the Boy Scouts. Sucks to be an Atheist's child I guess, and perhaps Atheists should get off their lazy asses and form their own club rather than demanding membership in a club that they're not welcome in.

[Robert_S]

It's a private club and you're not invited to join. If you don't want the religion, start another club of your own. What makes you think you have any right to judge the Boy Scouts and their policies or expect them to admit people whose beliefs are antithetical to the club's founding principles?

If they exclude on religious grounds, is that not the result of a judgement? Who judged first here?

They did, as is their right. One of the principles of constitutional liberty and freedom of association is the freedom to DIS-associate from someone, or some group whom you find to be morally or ethically corrupt or whom you simply do not wish to associate with, for any reason or no reason at all.

Just as nobody requires you to associate with Catholics or pedophiles, the Boy Scouts have every right to refuse to associate with persons, including children, who represent political or religious views that are in opposition to their own.

It's a private club that has religious belief requirements. Get over it. Start your own Atheist boy's club if you like.

It seems like the opprobrium being heaped on the Boy Scouts is based in jealousy and nothing more. They have the largest, oldest, and best boys adventure club on earth, and tens of millions of boys have enjoyed participating in Scouting for more than a hundred years, but it's not a club that's open to Atheists, which makes them angry that they are being discriminated against. Well, tough shit. Atheists don't have a right not to be discriminated against when it comes to membership in private organizations like the Boy Scouts. Sucks to be an Atheist's child I guess, and perhaps Atheists should get off their lazy asses and form their own club rather than demanding membership in a club that they're not welcome in.

Doesn't mean anyone's a hypocrite for saying it's rather shitty of them.

[Seth]

It's a private club and you're not invited to join. If you don't want the religion, start another club of your own. What makes you think you have any right to judge the Boy Scouts and their policies or expect them to admit people whose beliefs are antithetical to the club's founding principles?

If they exclude on religious grounds, is that not the result of a judgement? Who judged first here?

They did, as is their right. One of the principles of constitutional liberty and freedom of association is the freedom to DIS-associate from someone, or some group whom you find to be morally or ethically corrupt or whom you simply do not wish to associate with, for any reason or no reason at all.

Just as nobody requires you to associate with Catholics or pedophiles, the Boy Scouts have every right to refuse to associate with persons, including children, who represent political or religious views that are in opposition to their own.

It's a private club that has religious belief requirements. Get over it. Start your own Atheist boy's club if you like.

It seems like the opprobrium being heaped on the Boy Scouts is based in jealousy and nothing more. They have the largest, oldest, and best boys adventure club on earth, and tens of millions of boys have enjoyed participating in Scouting for more than a hundred years, but it's not a club that's open to Atheists, which makes them angry that they are being discriminated against. Well, tough shit. Atheists don't have a right not to be discriminated against when it comes to membership in private organizations like the Boy Scouts. Sucks to be an Atheist's child I guess, and perhaps Atheists should get off their lazy asses and form their own club rather than demanding membership in a club that they're not welcome in.

Doesn't mean anyone's a hypocrite for saying it's rather shitty of them.

Why is it "shitty" of them? Just because they exclude non-Christians and Atheists? This fails on the fallacious presumption that everybody is equally entitled to enjoy the benefits of a privately-built and privately-funded faith-based organization and that it's "shitty" to exclude those who do not meet the qualification requirements. That's a socialist conceit that just doesn't wash.

And yes, it's entirely hypocritical of Atheists to demand entry to religious organizations. It's beyond hypocritical. And just like being an Atheist, and particularly a militant religious Atheist, and choosing to work for a religious organization is hypocrisy of the highest order, demanding that a religious organization change its rules to accommodate Atheists is the height of arrogance and hypocrisy, as is excoriating them for simply choosing with whom they will associate, and with whom they will not associate.

If Atheists don't like being excluded and marginalized, then perhaps they should quit being such militant arrogant pricks about their atheism. (not that I mean you, of course, I'm speaking generally)

Robert Heinlein once wrote that if the natives rub blue mud in their bellybuttons, the polite thing to do is to rub blue mud in your own bellybutton, lest the natives become upset and have you for dinner.

If you don't want to rub blue mud in your bellybutton, then go somewhere else.