Deadly attack in Belgium

[Tyrannical]

Actually at one point a few years ago, about 2006=7? (somewhere about then) there were more murders in Glasgow per capita than anywhere else in the world for a few months. I remember this because there were 3 within 100 yards of where I stay including one right outside my close entrance. It seemed far fetched to me at the time, but it turned out that a lot of them were drug gang related (there was a power vacuum or something). Doug Stanhope pointed out that the reason we are so violent in the U.K. might be some subconcious confidence in the safety net of free health care.

Britain has had violent gang culture since at least the middle ages and it flares up quite often. I'd suggest that this years riots, which were apparently catalysed by the death of some supposed Gangland figure, was in a sense an orchestrated reaction conducted predominantly by gangleaders and played out by the sort of disadvantaged (not financially bte) greedy ignorant children (defined by mentality as much as age) that populate urban areas where such people are more relevant to the community than politicians.

The cause of the riots, and a good part of the rioters were Blacks, and Blacks don't have a long history in Britain except as a trace percentage. So I don't see how that would trace back to the middle ages.

[Audley Strange]

Actually at one point a few years ago, about 2006=7? (somewhere about then) there were more murders in Glasgow per capita than anywhere else in the world for a few months. I remember this because there were 3 within 100 yards of where I stay including one right outside my close entrance. It seemed far fetched to me at the time, but it turned out that a lot of them were drug gang related (there was a power vacuum or something). Doug Stanhope pointed out that the reason we are so violent in the U.K. might be some subconcious confidence in the safety net of free health care.

Britain has had violent gang culture since at least the middle ages and it flares up quite often. I'd suggest that this years riots, which were apparently catalysed by the death of some supposed Gangland figure, was in a sense an orchestrated reaction conducted predominantly by gangleaders and played out by the sort of disadvantaged (not financially bte) greedy ignorant children (defined by mentality as much as age) that populate urban areas where such people are more relevant to the community than politicians.

The cause of the riots, and a good part of the rioters were Blacks, and Blacks don't have a long history in Britain except as a trace percentage. So I don't see how that would trace back to the middle ages.

Can't see the wood for the black guy eh?

The reason you can't see how that would trace back is because you're looking for some connection that was not implied. Gang Culture did not start with Ice-T's classic O.G. nor did it start with the introduction of African Slaves into European culture, it is a form of human tribalism. The KKK were a gang of violent murderous assholes long before the Bloods and the Crips. You'd be making a gross error to assume that "gang culture" is a subset of black culture.

[MrJonno]

The role of the 'inner city' is somewhat different between the UK and US. Most Brits work in the centre cities or at least large towns, few people actually live there (housing is simple too expensive). Anyone young or of working age is certainly going to be in the inner city a large amount of their time. While there are certainly rich and poor areas the geographical distribution is no where near as vast. Few of us are more than a couple of miles from either an area with lots of millionaires or a council estate/project

[Tyrannical]

Actually at one point a few years ago, about 2006=7? (somewhere about then) there were more murders in Glasgow per capita than anywhere else in the world for a few months. I remember this because there were 3 within 100 yards of where I stay including one right outside my close entrance. It seemed far fetched to me at the time, but it turned out that a lot of them were drug gang related (there was a power vacuum or something). Doug Stanhope pointed out that the reason we are so violent in the U.K. might be some subconcious confidence in the safety net of free health care.

Britain has had violent gang culture since at least the middle ages and it flares up quite often. I'd suggest that this years riots, which were apparently catalysed by the death of some supposed Gangland figure, was in a sense an orchestrated reaction conducted predominantly by gangleaders and played out by the sort of disadvantaged (not financially bte) greedy ignorant children (defined by mentality as much as age) that populate urban areas where such people are more relevant to the community than politicians.

The cause of the riots, and a good part of the rioters were Blacks, and Blacks don't have a long history in Britain except as a trace percentage. So I don't see how that would trace back to the middle ages.

Can't see the wood for the black guy eh?

The reason you can't see how that would trace back is because you're looking for some connection that was not implied. Gang Culture did not start with Ice-T's classic O.G. nor did it start with the introduction of African Slaves into European culture, it is a form of human tribalism. The KKK were a gang of violent murderous assholes long before the Bloods and the Crips. You'd be making a gross error to assume that "gang culture" is a subset of black culture.

You seem to be confusing gang, tribe, and fraternal order.
The fist generation Klan protected innocent people, both black and white, from murderous violent assholes. Though I suppose you think that people got what they deserved after the slaves were freed. Blacks are by far the biggest victims of Black crime, and I'm sure the KKK saved far more Blacks then the ones they had to put down.
Long before woman's rights, became enforced, law it was the second generation Klan that would publicly horse whip and humiliate wife beaters.

[Audley Strange]

You seem to be confusing gang, tribe, and fraternal order.

You seem to think that having different words for the same thing makes them different.

[Tyrannical]

You seem to be confusing gang, tribe, and fraternal order.

You seem to think that having different words for the same thing makes them different.

They are all very different words. Do you not even know what a tribe is?

[Wumbologist]

Baldly, you are 4 times more likely to be murdered in the USA than in the UK and that ratio has been pretty static for the last 10 years. In both countries, murder rates are declining...maybe Steven Pinker is on to something...

Yes, if you treat the statistics as a simple numerical equation, where the population is x and the number of murders is y, you can easily reach the conclusion that I am 4x more likely to be murdered than you are, simply by virtue of being American. But you'd have to be a fool not to realize that these numbers apply to the real world in much more complicated ways than that. A 17 year old gang member in the inner city is FAR more than 4x more likely to be a homicide victim than the average UK citizen. On the other hand, for an American suburbanite with no ties to gang/drug culture, the risk is significantly lower, probably not too dissimilar from the UK counterpart. I see it unfold in the town I work (Lynn, MA) constantly. The violent crime rate is significantly higher than most neighboring towns, and when someone gets killed, you check the news the next day and they were almost invariably involved in/connected to a gang. While I have no gang ties myself, I'm probably at least at slightly higher risk myself, since the neighborhood I work in isn't a particularly nice one. One of the reasons I carry.

[Wumbologist]

You seem to be confusing gang, tribe, and fraternal order.

You seem to think that having different words for the same thing makes them different.

They are all very different words. Do you not even know what a tribe is?

It's a brand of hummus inferior to Sabra.



Did I win the moneys?

[Clinton Huxley]

@ Wumbo, don't disagree - you can always find anecdotes that belie the average. That doesn't invalidate the national statistics, just means that ON AVERAGE you are 4 times more likely to be murdered in the US than the UK

[Tyrannical]

You seem to be confusing gang, tribe, and fraternal order.

You seem to think that having different words for the same thing makes them different.

They are all very different words. Do you not even know what a tribe is?

It's a brand of hummus inferior to Sabra.



Did I win the moneys?

No, I already buy Sabra when I buy hummus. I did have to Google first as I had no idea, but that is what I buy.

[Tyrannical]

@ Wumbo, don't disagree - you can always find anecdotes that belie the average. That doesn't invalidate the national statistics, just means that ON AVERAGE you are 4 times more likely to be murdered in the US than the UK

I'm not even sure the US statistics are reported accurately. I've heard that some US cities don't report as murders people that die after the scene of the crime.

[Wumbologist]

@ Wumbo, don't disagree - you can always find anecdotes that belie the average.

Anecdotes? Fair enough, here's facts:

The town of Lynn, MA has enough gang crime that they feel it necessary to allocate resources towards a specific gang unit of the Lynn Police department. The following page includes the violent crime statistics for the town of Lynn, MA:

http://www.city-data.com/city/Lynn-Massachusetts.html

I grew up in neighboring Peabody, MA. It's a much quieter town, and while I remember a few classmates in high school who swore up and down they were in a gang, it was obvious to anyone with a modicum of common sense that they were nothing more than misguided teenage wannabes. It's a smaller town than Lynn, but one can ride a bicycle from downtown Lynn to downtown Peabody with ease:

http://www.city-data.com/city/Peabody-M ... setts.html

Looking at the data available on these sites, we can add up per capita crime rates and average them out for the 12 years of available data. For Peabody, MA, we end up with a whopping 0.65 murders per capita for the 12 year period. Neighboring Lynn's 12 year average comes out to 4.87. Lynn has a significantly lower median income, more drugs, and an active gang culture, factors which are clearly reflected in the difference in violent crime.

That doesn't invalidate the national statistics, just means that ON AVERAGE you are 4 times more likely to be murdered in the US than the UK

My point is in regards to the cause of that crime rate. WHY it exists. It's a common error for people to assume that because we can have guns, and there's a high homicide rate, the two must be connected. The truth is a lot more complicated than that.

[Clinton Huxley]

I blame it on rugged American individualism.

[MrJonno]

My point is in regards to the cause of that crime rate. WHY it exists. It's a common error for people to assume that because we can have guns, and there's a high homicide rate, the two must be connected. The truth is a lot more complicated than that

But it certainly doesnt show that having guns makes anyone safer either

[Coito ergo sum]

Rugged individualism has morphed into sort of a flaccid socialism.