Pope thinks child buggery isn't so bad

[klr]

I don't recall hearing about a teacher who has been suspected of molesting children being quietly moved to another school so he or she can abuse different, unsuspecting children.

It's certainly possible this has happened in Ireland with lay (non-religious) teachers, but even so, many such cases would still involve the Church, given how much say it has had in the running of the education system. That said, my impression is that where lay teachers were known to have offended, the school authorities - including the Church in many cases - were far less inclined to move the problem around, as they would if it were a cleric.

[Seth]

I don't recall hearing about a teacher who has been suspected of molesting children being quietly moved to another school so he or she can abuse different, unsuspecting children.

Don't know much about the UK, and I believe little research has been done on the subject there, but here, it happens all the time, with the collusion and complicity of the teacher's unions. It's far more prevalent than Catholic church abuse in the US, by an order of magnitude or more.

[Svartalf]

sources?

[Seth]

sources?

Already cited.

[Rum]

I don't recall hearing about a teacher who has been suspected of molesting children being quietly moved to another school so he or she can abuse different, unsuspecting children.

Don't know much about the UK, and I believe little research has been done on the subject there, but here, it happens all the time, with the collusion and complicity of the teacher's unions. It's far more prevalent than Catholic church abuse in the US, by an order of magnitude or more.

Well as it happens one of my responsibilities until I finished working in April was to manage the system that deals with accusations of this type in schools. I have no idea where you get your information from . I can only assume in this case you are pulling it out of thin air in order to support your position. Given that one of the things I do have respect for usually is the scrupulous nature of your evidence (even if I rarely agree with your conclusions) I am disappointed.

For the record any accusation concerning a child protection matter in a school is dealt with following a strict protocol. Not to follow it is itself a sackable offense. Head teachers undergo training in it once a year and all school staff at differing frequencies depending on the nature of their role in the school. I used to manage the training system too.

When an accusation is made or evidence comes to light of any possibility of abuse the protocol is followed to the letter. It is investigated by an officer of the local authority (who I line managed) called a LADO (Local Authority Designated Officer). The teacher is usually suspended, though less so now since the new government came in, while the investigation takes place. If the teacher is found to have molested the child he or she is out of a job. Unions do represent them at hearings and so on, again depending on the nature of the allegation.

No teacher is EVER moved on 'quietly' to another school to start a new career in child molestation.

[Seth]

I don't recall hearing about a teacher who has been suspected of molesting children being quietly moved to another school so he or she can abuse different, unsuspecting children.

Don't know much about the UK, and I believe little research has been done on the subject there, but here, it happens all the time, with the collusion and complicity of the teacher's unions. It's far more prevalent than Catholic church abuse in the US, by an order of magnitude or more.

Well as it happens one of my responsibilities until I finished working in April was to manage the system that deals with accusations of this type in schools. I have no idea where you get your information from . I can only assume in this case you are pulling it out of thin air in order to support your position. Given that one of the things I do have respect for usually is the scrupulous nature of your evidence (even if I rarely agree with your conclusions) I am disappointed.

I wasn't referring to the UK, and said I don't know much about the situation there, so your input is welcome, particularly since you have some expertise in the matter.

For the record any accusation concerning a child protection matter in a school is dealt with following a strict protocol. Not to follow it is itself a sackable offense. Head teachers undergo training in it once a year and all school staff at differing frequencies depending on the nature of their role in the school. I used to manage the training system too.

Well, that's supposed to happen here in the US too. In fact, it's a CRIMINAL offense to fail to report child sexual abuse (teachers are "mandatory reporters") and yet it happens all the time, and teachers are frequently shifted around to avoid the scandal. They are getting caught much more often these days though, and a surprising number of women are being caught.

When an accusation is made or evidence comes to light of any possibility of abuse the protocol is followed to the letter.

Well, not to be skeptical or anything, but I'm sure you'd like to think so, but I doubt that every case comes to the attention of superiors, and I suspect that like everywhere else, there are cover-ups going on. Although I hope I'm wrong.

It is investigated by an officer of the local authority (who I line managed) called a LADO (Local Authority Designated Officer). The teacher is usually suspended, though less so now since the new government came in, while the investigation takes place. If the teacher is found to have molested the child he or she is out of a job. Unions do represent them at hearings and so on, again depending on the nature of the allegation.

No teacher is EVER moved on 'quietly' to another school to start a new career in child molestation.

I know you'd like to think so, but all it takes is collusion on the part of a headmaster who wants to avoid scandal and a victim who doesn't report to allow it to happen. We have the same sort of reporting and investigation protocols here, but they fail regularly, and all the protocols in the world won't help if the molester convinces the victim not to report the abuse, which leads me to the belief that there is such abuse in the UK, although I don't know how it compares to the US. Perhaps you have some figures on the number of cases that get investigated you could share with us to give us some idea of the comparison?

[amused]

If a Libertarian wanted the public schools system to be destroyed, it would advance that agenda to tar all public school teachers with the taint of the sexual abuse of a few bad apples.

[Rum]

I don't recall hearing about a teacher who has been suspected of molesting children being quietly moved to another school so he or she can abuse different, unsuspecting children.

Don't know much about the UK, and I believe little research has been done on the subject there, but here, it happens all the time, with the collusion and complicity of the teacher's unions. It's far more prevalent than Catholic church abuse in the US, by an order of magnitude or more.

Well as it happens one of my responsibilities until I finished working in April was to manage the system that deals with accusations of this type in schools. I have no idea where you get your information from . I can only assume in this case you are pulling it out of thin air in order to support your position. Given that one of the things I do have respect for usually is the scrupulous nature of your evidence (even if I rarely agree with your conclusions) I am disappointed.

I wasn't referring to the UK, and said I don't know much about the situation there, so your input is welcome, particularly since you have some expertise in the matter.

For the record any accusation concerning a child protection matter in a school is dealt with following a strict protocol. Not to follow it is itself a sackable offense. Head teachers undergo training in it once a year and all school staff at differing frequencies depending on the nature of their role in the school. I used to manage the training system too.

Well, that's supposed to happen here in the US too. In fact, it's a CRIMINAL offense to fail to report child sexual abuse (teachers are "mandatory reporters") and yet it happens all the time, and teachers are frequently shifted around to avoid the scandal. They are getting caught much more often these days though, and a surprising number of women are being caught.

When an accusation is made or evidence comes to light of any possibility of abuse the protocol is followed to the letter.

Well, not to be skeptical or anything, but I'm sure you'd like to think so, but I doubt that every case comes to the attention of superiors, and I suspect that like everywhere else, there are cover-ups going on. Although I hope I'm wrong.

It is investigated by an officer of the local authority (who I line managed) called a LADO (Local Authority Designated Officer). The teacher is usually suspended, though less so now since the new government came in, while the investigation takes place. If the teacher is found to have molested the child he or she is out of a job. Unions do represent them at hearings and so on, again depending on the nature of the allegation.

No teacher is EVER moved on 'quietly' to another school to start a new career in child molestation.

I know you'd like to think so, but all it takes is collusion on the part of a headmaster who wants to avoid scandal and a victim who doesn't report to allow it to happen. We have the same sort of reporting and investigation protocols here, but they fail regularly, and all the protocols in the world won't help if the molester convinces the victim not to report the abuse, which leads me to the belief that there is such abuse in the UK, although I don't know how it compares to the US. Perhaps you have some figures on the number of cases that get investigated you could share with us to give us some idea of the comparison?

They rarely fail here.

[Ronja]

If a Libertarian wanted the public schools system to be destroyed, it would advance that agenda to tar all public school teachers with the taint of the sexual abuse of a few bad apples.

ISWYDT

[amused]

If a Libertarian wanted the public schools system to be destroyed, it would advance that agenda to tar all public school teachers with the taint of the sexual abuse of a few bad apples.

ISWYDT

[Seth]

If a Libertarian wanted the public schools system to be destroyed, it would advance that agenda to tar all public school teachers with the taint of the sexual abuse of a few bad apples.

Libertarians don't want it destroyed, they just want it to be voluntary and paid for by those who have kids in them rather than by taxing everyone for an inefficient, ineffective bureaucracy. The best way to accomplish this, given the fact that the public has invested a lot in the infrastructure already, is to allow vouchers wherein the money that the state collects towards the education of an individual child goes with THE CHILD, regardless of where the parents choose to send that child to school, be it a public school, a private school, or a religious school. So long as the basic curriculum is the same in all schools so that all children receive a basic education that is equal, it should not be up to the state where the child goes to school.

The public school racket is supported by the public school teacher's unions precisely because they have a lock on taxpayer dollars and they know full well that if the free market were to be given priority, many of them would be out of their jobs for being ineffective and inefficient. In a free market educational system, even one supported by tax dollars, children will gravitate to the schools that provide the best, most effective, and most cost-effective education, and lazy, entitlement-minded dependent-class union teachers will have to take up flipping burgers instead of being supported for life by public funds for NOT doing their jobs.

In India, they have a public school system, and even the very poorest of parents work extra hard to keep their kids OUT of that completely ineffective system where teachers literally sleep through class. They do whatever they can to put them in private schools, where their kids get a much better education. Parents everywhere want the best bang for the buck they can get, but they are often trapped in the inefficient, corrupt, ineffective public school system by tax laws and union interference in their free choice to have their children educated by the teachers of their choice, rather than the state's choice.

Of course, the unions are dominated by Fabian Socialists and the Frankfurt School Marxist idealogues who cling to power tooth and nail because they know that to advance Socialism they have to pry the children away from their parents and get them into public school where they can be indoctrinated and propagandized to be good little Marxists.

All the more reason to reconstitute the public school system by eliminating teacher's unions and giving parents vouchers so their kids can go where the parents want them to go for their education.

[Rum]

You are right (quick somebody check his pulse!) about teaching unions here in the UK, not concerning child protection, but concerning their closed shop/work to rule and conservative attitude to change and innovation. They are a pain to deal with and here in the UK are one reason why ten years of high spending on eduction did little to improve standards.

[JimC]

You are right (quick somebody check his pulse!) about teaching unions here in the UK, not concerning child protection, but concerning their closed shop/work to rule and conservative attitude to change and innovation. They are a pain to deal with and here in the UK are one reason why ten years of high spending on eduction did little to improve standards.

I am a proud member of my teacher's union.

We don't care if we piss Education Department bureaucrats off!

We are there to support each other and to obtain reasonable and fair conditions of employment. Union forever!

[Rum]

You are right (quick somebody check his pulse!) about teaching unions here in the UK, not concerning child protection, but concerning their closed shop/work to rule and conservative attitude to change and innovation. They are a pain to deal with and here in the UK are one reason why ten years of high spending on eduction did little to improve standards.

I am a proud member of my teacher's union.

We don't care if we piss Education Department bureaucrats off!

We are there to support each other and to obtain reasonable and fair conditions of employment. Union forever!

This may well be true of Australia, but as far as I am concerned the teaching unions in this country have at times put their own interests before the improvement of teaching methods and systems and therefore ultimately the education of children, though of course it is never presented as such. Their rigidity and resistance to change is legendary here.

[JimC]

You are right (quick somebody check his pulse!) about teaching unions here in the UK, not concerning child protection, but concerning their closed shop/work to rule and conservative attitude to change and innovation. They are a pain to deal with and here in the UK are one reason why ten years of high spending on eduction did little to improve standards.

I am a proud member of my teacher's union.

We don't care if we piss Education Department bureaucrats off!

We are there to support each other and to obtain reasonable and fair conditions of employment. Union forever!

This may well be true of Australia, but as far as I am concerned the teaching unions in this country have at times put their own interests before the improvement of teaching methods and systems and therefore ultimately the education of children, though of course it is never presented as such. Their rigidity and resistance to change is legendary here.

I'm sure that from time to time we may have done a little of that, but I strongly reject the Sethian implication of church-like cover-ups of child abuse...