US Drone Shot Down Over Iran - US acting unlawfully?

[Clinton Huxley]

^^ What the world needs is more Jim.

[Coito ergo sum]

9/11 looks more and more righteous.

9/11 was plenty self-righteous, that is for sure.

[Jason]

This falls under the "who the fuck cares what Iran says, thinks or want?" They are a belligerent nation, sponsors of Islamic terrorism, a rogue nuclear state, and a danger to world peace and anything the US does to inhibit their belligerence, reveal their secret nuclear facilities and prepare to cut the head off that particular snake is fine with me, international law be damned.

Losing a drone or two is small potatoes compared with the intelligence value of overflying Iran, just as Gary Powers being shot down in his U2 over Soviet Russia was an acceptable loss in the Cold War.

There's plenty of people, and several nations, just champing at the bit for an excuse to bomb the crap out of Iran, the US and Israel being among them. I hope that the fuckwit-in-charge (can't be bothered to spell his name) sets one military food outside of Iran and gives us and the Israelis enough of a reason to turn his palace into molten glass.

We'll surveil whomever we determine is a military threat to us and if they don't like it, then they can go right ahead and declare war on us, and to hell with the UN and the International Court, neither of whom have any jurisdiction over us.

9/11 looks more and more righteous.

Excellent examples of why extremes are detestable, moronic and totally uncivilised...

You have both become caricatures of your respective political positions...

Well said Jim.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

9/11 looks more and more righteous.

9/11 was plenty self-righteous, that is for sure.

Yep, more murders. Gawd's will.

[Gawd]

The only thing Americans will understand is if bombs rain down on American soil. America invades and bombs other countries for conquest and greed. Only if war is fought in American cities and the land is laid to waste will they learn to eat humble pie and get a taste of what they do to others.

[Coito ergo sum]

The only thing Americans will understand is if bombs rain down on American soil. America invades and bombs other countries for conquest and greed. Only if war is fought in American cities and the land is laid to waste will they learn to eat humble pie and get a taste of what they do to others.

Have a list of those countries we've invaded for conquest and greed?

If your second sentence comes true, world civilization will descend into similar anarchy, so we'll all be enjoying that fun.

[Gawd]

The only thing Americans will understand is if bombs rain down on American soil. America invades and bombs other countries for conquest and greed. Only if war is fought in American cities and the land is laid to waste will they learn to eat humble pie and get a taste of what they do to others.

Have a list of those countries we've invaded for conquest and greed?

If your second sentence comes true, world civilization will descend into similar anarchy, so we'll all be enjoying that fun.

Why don't you start your American propaganda spiel against Cuba?

And your second sentence shows the hick mindset of the typical American that they are untouchable and can kill and pillage with impunity.

[tattuchu]

The only thing Americans will understand is if bombs rain down on American soil. America invades and bombs other countries for conquest and greed. Only if war is fought in American cities and the land is laid to waste will they learn to eat humble pie and get a taste of what they do to others.

That will never happen. You're not taking into account the wealth of ignorance and arrogance here.

[Coito ergo sum]

The only thing Americans will understand is if bombs rain down on American soil. America invades and bombs other countries for conquest and greed. Only if war is fought in American cities and the land is laid to waste will they learn to eat humble pie and get a taste of what they do to others.

Have a list of those countries we've invaded for conquest and greed?

If your second sentence comes true, world civilization will descend into similar anarchy, so we'll all be enjoying that fun.

Why don't you start your American propaganda spiel against Cuba?

Cuba is a bastion of liberty, and provides a quality of life and standard of living for its people that is unmatched. Their electoral system is so free, that in absolutely unquestionably free, open and fair elections, the same guy has remained in power for over 50 years...they liked him so much, they picked his brother to succeed him, as a matter of fact. There aren't words in the English language sufficient to sing proper praises to the Shangrila that is the great Cuban nation.

And your second sentence shows the hick mindset of the typical American that they are untouchable and can kill and pillage with impunity.

You must not have a good reading comprehension skills.

We are plenty touchable. I'm just saying the obvious, which is that if you having wars in the streets of American cities (the US presenting being about 25% of the entire world's economy) it is going to have a pretty dire effect on the rest of the world.

[apophenia]

On what basis do we actually care? If the Iranians can't control their own air space, fuck 'em.

It sounds like you're under the illusion that America conducts only ethical and legal foreign policies and initiatives.

[Coito ergo sum]

On what basis do we actually care? If the Iranians can't control their own air space, fuck 'em.

It sounds like you're under the illusion that America conducts only ethical and legal foreign policies and initiatives.

If you're talking to me, then on what basis do you allege that it "sounds like" I'm under that illusion? I raised the issue of whether the US drone attacks were in violation of international law. How does that sound like it is my illusion that America conducts only ethical and legal foreign policies and initiatives?

[Jason]

On what basis do we actually care? If the Iranians can't control their own air space, fuck 'em.

Interesting reasoning. Do you apply it to all nations equally? Does might make right? Or perhaps you just don't give a fuck about ethics, morality, or legality when it comes to nations you don't like? How far does this unconcern extend?

The most famous, violent and abhorrent aggressive expansionist regimes in history applied very similar lines of reasoning (without going all Godwin).

[apophenia]

On what basis do we actually care? If the Iranians can't control their own air space, fuck 'em.

Interesting reasoning. Do you apply it to all nations equally? Does might make right? Or perhaps you just don't give a fuck about ethics, morality, or legality when it comes to nations you don't like? How far does this unconcern extend?

First, don't put words in my mouth.

Second,

A) Does might makes right work? The combined might of Britain, Russia, and the U.S. prevailed against the Axis powers in WWII, and if they hadn't, we'd likely have seen a different mythology surrounding that war and be nonetheless content. Are you arguing that's not what should have happened?

B) Why do you feel ethics, derived from notions about interpersonal conduct and largely inscrutable, should apply to nation states? Or put the other way around, why should nation states abide by ethical mores which apply to individuals?

CES: I say it sounded because if the U.S. violating Iranian airspace were a non-issue, you likely wouldn't have thought it important enough to start its own thread. What is your position on the ethics of covert operations?

[Coito ergo sum]

CES: I say it sounded because if the U.S. violating Iranian airspace were a non-issue, you likely wouldn't have thought it important enough to start its own thread. What is your position on the ethics of covert operations?

I can't comment on all covert operations, but flying planes over another nation's territory without their consent is pretty clearly a violation of international law, and would normally constitute justification for military action in response.

[Coito ergo sum]

WASHINGTON (AP) - The Obama administration has delivered a formal request to Iran for the return of a U.S. surveillance drone captured by Iranian armed forces, but said it is not hopeful that Iran will comply.
President Barack Obama said Monday that the U.S. wants the top-secret aircraft back. "We have asked for it back. We'll see how the Iranians respond," Obama said during a White House news conference with Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki on Monday.
In an interview broadcast live Monday night on Venezuelan state television, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said nothing to suggest his country would grant the U.S. request.
"The Americans have perhaps decided to give us this spy plane," Ahmadinejad said. "We now have control of this plane."
Speaking through an interpreter, Ahmadinejad said: "There are people here who have been able to control this spy plane, who can surely analyze this plane's system also. ... In any case, now we have this spy plane."
He added, "Very soon, they're going to learn more about the abilities and possibilities of our country."
On Tuesday, a semi-official Iranian news agency said authorities have shrugged off the U.S. request. Defense Minister Gen. Ahmad Vahidi said the United States should apologize for invading Iranian air space instead of asking for the return of the unmanned aircraft.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20111213/D9RJJES01.html