Pope thinks child buggery isn't so bad

[Saoirse]

According to the pope, child buggery just ain't so bad.

“In the 1970s, paedophilia was theorised as something fully in conformity with man and even with children,” the Pope said.

http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/2010/12/13808/










facepalm

[Schneibster]

I had no idea he was being that out front about it. I'd think that would be admissible in court.

[Saoirse]

Even my neighbor the nun called this pope an asshole...and she's married to Jeebus!

[FBM]

Even my neighbor the nun called this pope an asshole...and she's married to Jeebus!

Seriously? She used that word? That would be hilarious...

[JimC]

He really is scraping the bottom of the barrel, the evil old bastard...

I'm actually astounded that the Vatican spin-doctors didn't head that one off before it left his lips...

[Seth]

Of course, that's not what the Pope actually thinks or says, and the linky is to a Catholic-bashing blog site that's cherry-picking and quote mining, but don't let that stop you from being all indignant and junk.

[Tyrannical]

I remember when the Gay rights groups called NAMBLA an integral part of them. They were booted out of some UN HIV committee for ten years for supporting pedos.

[JimC]

Of course, that's not what the Pope actually thinks or says, and the linky is to a Catholic-bashing blog site that's cherry-picking and quote mining, but don't let that stop you from being all indignant and junk.

Did you follow the link within the link?

Leads to a very clear statement by the pope.

He clearly said it; an unwise move, amongst his many others (remember his big anti-Islam serve - mind you, I kinda agreed with that one, but it was politically unwise...)

[Animavore]

That story's from 2010. Caused a bit of outrage amongst victims groups at the time. The story it links to from the Belfast Telegraph is a bit more accurate.

[Seth]

Of course, that's not what the Pope actually thinks or says, and the linky is to a Catholic-bashing blog site that's cherry-picking and quote mining, but don't let that stop you from being all indignant and junk.

Did you follow the link within the link?

Leads to a very clear statement by the pope.

He clearly said it; an unwise move, amongst his many others (remember his big anti-Islam serve - mind you, I kinda agreed with that one, but it was politically unwise...)

Said what? That "child buggery isn't so bad?" That's a flat-out lie by the OP. More importantly, the story, from 2010, that was cited, is a gross distortion of what the address contained by the reporter.

What he actually said was that SOCIETY, by the 1970s, had begun to accept child pornography as "normal", and that padeophilia has not historically been considered to be "absolute evil." In saying this he was merely reciting historical facts, NOT attempting to argue that these theories or acts are acceptable. He in fact resoundingly rejected such acts and beliefs.

We can see the mendacious and calculated quote-mining by the reporter by examining both the manner in which the quotes are presented and then by examining what the Pope actually said, in its full context, by referring to the Vatican records of the address, which it took me all of about 10 seconds to find. It took me longer to read it than find it, and what I found when I did proves the reporter is a lying sack of shit.

“In the 1970s, paedophilia was theorised as something fully in conformity with man and even with children,” the Pope said. “It was maintained — even within the realm of Catholic theology — that there is no such thing as evil in itself or good in itself. There is only a ‘better than' and a ‘worse than'. Nothing is good or bad in itself.”
...
“We cannot remain silent about the context of these times in which these events have come to light,” he said, citing the growth of child pornography “that seems in some way to be considered more and more normal by society” he said.

The quote-mining conflation of the red and blue statements BY THE REPORTER makes it appear like the Pope is arguing that paedophilia is neither "good or bad in itself," but this is clearly not the case. What he ACTUALLY SAID in the address is:

We were all the more dismayed, then, when in this year of all years and to a degree we could not have imagined, we came to know of abuse of minors committed by priests who twist the sacrament into its antithesis, and under the mantle of the sacred profoundly wound human persons in their childhood, damaging them for a whole lifetime.
...
In the vision of Saint Hildegard, the face of the Church is stained with dust, and this is how we have seen it. Her garment is torn – by the sins of priests. The way she saw and expressed it is the way we have experienced it this year. We must accept this humiliation as an exhortation to truth and a call to renewal. Only the truth saves. We must ask ourselves what we can do to repair as much as possible the injustice that has occurred. We must ask ourselves what was wrong in our proclamation, in our whole way of living the Christian life, to allow such a thing to happen. We must discover a new resoluteness in faith and in doing good. We must be capable of doing penance. We must be determined to make every possible effort in priestly formation to prevent anything of the kind from happening again. This is also the moment to offer heartfelt thanks to all those who work to help victims and to restore their trust in the Church, their capacity to believe her message. In my meetings with victims of this sin, I have also always found people who, with great dedication, stand alongside those who suffer and have been damaged. This is also the occasion to thank the many good priests who act as channels of the Lord’s goodness in humility and fidelity and, amid the devastations, bear witness to the unforfeited beauty of the priesthood.

We are well aware of the particular gravity of this sin committed by priests and of our corresponding responsibility. But neither can we remain silent regarding the context of these times in which these events have come to light. There is a market in child pornography that seems in some way to be considered more and more normal by society. The psychological destruction of children, in which human persons are reduced to articles of merchandise, is a terrifying sign of the times. From Bishops of developing countries I hear again and again how sexual tourism threatens an entire generation and damages its freedom and its human dignity. The Book of Revelation includes among the great sins of Babylon – the symbol of the world’s great irreligious cities – the fact that it trades with bodies and souls and treats them as commodities (cf. Rev 18:13). In this context, the problem of drugs also rears its head, and with increasing force extends its octopus tentacles around the entire world – an eloquent expression of the tyranny of mammon which perverts mankind. No pleasure is ever enough, and the excess of deceiving intoxication becomes a violence that tears whole regions apart – and all this in the name of a fatal misunderstanding of freedom which actually undermines man’s freedom and ultimately destroys it.

In order to resist these forces, we must turn our attention to their ideological foundations. In the 1970s, paedophilia was theorized as something fully in conformity with man and even with children. This, however, was part of a fundamental perversion of the concept of ethos. It was maintained – even within the realm of Catholic theology – that there is no such thing as evil in itself or good in itself. There is only a “better than” and a “worse than”. Nothing is good or bad in itself. Everything depends on the circumstances and on the end in view. Anything can be good or also bad, depending upon purposes and circumstances. Morality is replaced by a calculus of consequences, and in the process it ceases to exist. The effects of such theories are evident today. Against them, Pope John Paul II, in his 1993 Encyclical Letter Veritatis Splendor, indicated with prophetic force in the great rational tradition of Christian ethos the essential and permanent foundations of moral action. Today, attention must be focussed anew on this text as a path in the formation of conscience. It is our responsibility to make these criteria audible and intelligible once more for people today as paths of true humanity, in the context of our paramount concern for mankind.

So, as we can see by actually referring to original sources, not the maunderings of lying reporters or anti-catholic bigots here who fail to do their homework, that the Pope was saying exactly the polar opposite of what the OP claims.

[JimC]

Fair point.

However, my contention still remains that the statement was politically unwise; it gives the wrong impression...

More to the point, the churches's actions in recent times have been ineffectual, and have not matched any rhetoric of "how terrible this is, we're so sorry"

[Seth]

Fair point.

However, my contention still remains that the statement was politically unwise; it gives the wrong impression...

Not if you read the ENTIRE statement in context. Doing so reveals deep sorrow and sadness at the scandal and a strong resolve to correct the wrongs and never let them happen again.

More to the point, the churches's actions in recent times have been ineffectual, and have not matched any rhetoric of "how terrible this is, we're so sorry"

Which again is not true. No organization on the planet has done more to initiate programs, training, regulations and other safeguards to ensure that such things do not happen again. Whereas after Vatican II, the scrutiny of priest applicants became lax, nowadays the requirements to become a priest include extensive psychological examination to weed out potential pedophiles, among other strict safety and security measures. Every lay person in the Church who has anything to do with children, even being present among them during church activities, is required to submit to a criminal background check and attend a child protection class prior to being allowed to so much as pick up a child from Sunday school as a non-parent. I know, I had to go through the process just to be authorized to pick up my nephews at the church.

And this does not include the nearly one billion dollars the church has paid out in settlements to alleged victims, often when the proofs were lacking and the alleged offenders long dead.

So it's false to say that the church has been "ineffectual" in dealing with the threat of child sex abuse. Virtually all of the incidents in which such abuse was claimed happened 40 to 50 years ago, and I can only recall ONE incident that happened recently, and that priest was immediately turned in and arrested, and defrocked.

[Animavore]

Fair point.

However, my contention still remains that the statement was politically unwise; it gives the wrong impression...

More to the point, the churches's actions in recent times have been ineffectual, and have not matched any rhetoric of "how terrible this is, we're so sorry"

That's all they need to do. That and stop standing in the way of investigations. It's like they don't care the pews are emptying, that no one wants to be a priest anymore. That the Irish government is on the verge of separating church and state (not that I mind the last bit but from their standpoint). Even older people who were literally brainwashed in school and had it drilled into their heads are becoming disillusioned and cursing them.
I wouldn't mind but most of these people are still getting the church wedding, the church funeral, christening, communion and confirmation so all is not lost for them. They just need to buck up and listen to what the people want and quit with the bad PR.
I think allowing female priests would be a good move for them right now but they won't do it.

[Rum]

That article is a year old - anyone notice?

There is some truth in it though. I trained as a social worker between 1976 and 1979. Cases of sexual and /or physical abuse were rarely reported at all and there was very little theoretical knowledge around about the issue. Certainly there was no statistical information.

Shortly after I qualified there were a couple of high profile cases including two child deaths, which were in the papers with screaming headlines. The referral rate for child protection cases shot up in the team I joined which covered the smallish city of Hereford in 1979 from about two a month to, by 1982 something like 5 a week. My training became redundant overnight and we went from generic social work teams dealing with the whole range of welfare issues, to specialist Child protection teams, which had to undergo additional training urgently.

There were almost certainly no more actual cases of child cruelty and abuse, but the profile of the issue was suddenly much higher, the public more aware and things like Childline made it much easier for victims and the public to make contact with someone who might be able to help.

Until that point the issue was hidden to a great extent I would argue. It is no excuse of course, but the fact that a higher proportion of catholic priests - in places of trust and with access to children - should turn out to be pedophiles should be no great surprise. By its nature the activity is secretive and the public unaware of it and its victims, appallingly, unable to make any sense of what to do.

The Catholic infrastructure, hardly the most progressive to begin with, was perfectly placed, even when the issue did start to develop a high profile, to keep its head well buried in the sand.

The work, incidentally was hard, stressful and distressing at times. I stuck it for about 11 years in all and then moved on to something that didn't keep you awake at night worrying about decisions you had made that day.

[JimC]

A very relevant editorial in today's Melbourne Age...

State must act on crimes in church December 3, 2011

Opinion

How can an organisation devoted to good in the service of God have done such harm to the most vulnerable of people? As Chrissie Foster writes today in The Saturday Age, the Catholic Church is rich and powerful, but failed to protect, let alone help, her two daughters and many other victims of sexually abusive priests. Worse, the church shielded many offenders from justice. One victim, Mairead Ashcroft, goes public today to expose the failure to refer to police her sexual abuse by a Marianist Brother. Despite admitting his actions in a signed apology to her, he now serves as a clergyman in the US. Today, too, CatholicCare manager Alan Baker joins her in calling for a state inquiry.

This newspaper is on record as advocating a comprehensive independent inquiry. Ideally, this would follow the model of Ireland's cathartic Ryan inquiry of 2009 by being a national review. Despite public outrage at never-ending revelations of sexual crimes and cover-ups, that seems a remote prospect. The Victorian government has the power to start the essential process of independent scrutiny so offenders and those who shielded them can be held accountable.

The Catholic Church has established processes for handling complaints against clergy. The Melbourne Response and the national Towards Healing approach were, however, ''created and implemented by people with vested interests in protecting the church, its public image, its property and future income'', as Ms Foster observes. From within the church, Mr Baker also believes its response is ''fundamentally driven by damage control - a desire to protect its own name, reputation and wealth''. It is true that, in a pastoral letter last year, Melbourne Archbishop Denis Hart acknowledged the crimes of priests over the years. ''As Christ's church, we must face up to the truth of these revelations and not attempt to disguise, diminish or avoid in any way the actions of priests and religious who have betrayed their sacred trust,'' he wrote. While the archbishop admitted the criminality of sexual abuse and assault, most of the nearly 100 perpetrators have escaped prosecution and benefited from confidential settlements. Victims' suffering has been compounded by church processes that Mr Baker describes as ''terribly unfair''.

The church's handling of these matters has avoided external review. The problem for the church is that an appalling institutional record means any in-house review and any findings it makes will simply lack credibility. This leaves all clergy under a cloud of suspicion, when most are innocent. This cancer will eat away at the church until an independent inquiry establishes the extent of wrongdoing and finds ways to deliver justice to all victims. This is not only in the interests of victims and their families, it is essential for a body founded on trust and belief. Only by publicly confessing all the sins of its servants can the Catholic Church cleanse itself.

Difficult as this may be for church and state, the Ryan inquiry illustrated why such crimes cannot be anything but a state responsibility. For decades, the church, state and society as a whole all too often looked the other way, thus sharing complicity in a system that has caused untold suffering. The only way even to begin to atone, and to heal both church and victims, is to record the full extent of the crimes of clergy, understand how they happened and put in place measures to ensure no sexual predator can ever again prosper in the church. An institutional cycle of abuse flourished in the dark. Shining a light on the church, painful as it may be, is vital for its salvation as a respected public institution and an effective agent of faith.


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/editor ... z1fXPqwWa5