Psychopaths

[Schneibster]

At some point, people who are insane become a threat to themselves and society. Currently we determine this by noting that they've hurt or killed someone. This seems a bit callous to me. Apparently not to you.

[Cunt]

Not at all. It seems like planning an intervention before someone commits a crime skips over that whole 'innocent until proven guilty' thing so many are attached to.

Would you like to be sanctioned for having too much empathy, even before it becomes a real-world problem for you?

[Schneibster]

Not at all. It seems like planning an intervention before someone commits a crime skips over that whole 'innocent until proven guilty' thing so many are attached to.

There is no guilt involved.

Nor punishment.

Classic paranoia.

Would you like to be sanctioned for having too much empathy, even before it becomes a real-world problem for you?

There is no sanction.

Classic paranoia.

[Seth]

At some point, people who are insane become a threat to themselves and society. Currently we determine this by noting that they've hurt or killed someone. This seems a bit callous to me. Apparently not to you.

Seems even more callous to incarcerate them before they've actually done anything wrong, given the fact that "insane" people very often manage to function peaceably in society all the time. Not well, perhaps, but not harmfully to others. This is because there are many types and degrees of "insanity," and locking someone up who hasn't demonstrated they are a danger to themselves or others is a recipe for tyranny, as the Soviet Union proved, where malcontents and counterrevolutionaries were deemed to be "insane" and were locked up and "treated," often to death.

[Schneibster]

At some point, people who are insane become a threat to themselves and society. Currently we determine this by noting that they've hurt or killed someone. This seems a bit callous to me. Apparently not to you.

Seems even more callous to incarcerate them before they've actually done anything wrong,

You should probably actually bother to read the thread before commenting.

[Tero]

Add to famous pedophiles:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wayne_Gacy
creepy house
http://www.talesoferotichorror.com/johnwaynegacy.html
Google maps still has a one story house at the location, presumably all new but still...

[hadespussercats]

I'm concerned about the extreme amount of anti-psychology I see.

Do you know anything about cognitive therapy? It's like being against hugs.

I'm not anti-psychology, or anti-psychiatry for that matter-- and since you've been discussing medical intervention as well as cognitive therapy, I think you mean the latter. Neither of them are about hugs. Psychiatry saved my life, in many respects, and there were absolutely no hugs involved. And yes, I would have been against them if there were.

My point is that if a brain is physically structured in such a way that empathy does not exist for an individual (which I thought was the point of the article-- this difference in brains between psychopaths and normal criminals) you can try cognitive behavioral therapy til the cows come home-- you're not going to make them sensitive.

I'm actually concerned that you're projecting from a study done on criminals to a mandatory health policy for the entire population. Yes, a criminal with no empathy is dangerous, but what if a psychopath doesn't harm anyone, has no interest in harming anyone, and just wants to live his or her life, unbothered? Why are they being treated like criminals when they haven't committed any crime?

[hadespussercats]

Most mental and emotional problems are about what sufferers lack. The ones that aren't about that are so debilitating that sufferers either die or are completely incapable of negotiating human society, much less murdering someone or wanting much of anything.

What the fuck do you know about it?

I'll use a parlance you'll understand: The above quote is a lie.

And I think I'm done with this thread.

[Schneibster]

I'm concerned about the extreme amount of anti-psychology I see.

Do you know anything about cognitive therapy? It's like being against hugs.

I'm not anti-psychology, or anti-psychiatry for that matter-- and since you've been discussing medical intervention as well as cognitive therapy, I think you mean the latter. Neither of them are about hugs. Psychiatry saved my life, in many respects, and there were absolutely no hugs involved. And yes, I would have been against them if there were.

I'm not clear on where I was discussing medical intervention, or psychiatry. For the past several exchanges with Cunt, I've been discussing cognitive therapy and psychology only. I am also not aware of cognitive therapy having anything to do with psychiatry.

My point is that if a brain is physically structured in such a way that empathy does not exist for an individual (which I thought was the point of the article-- this difference in brains between psychopaths and normal criminals) you can try cognitive behavioral therapy til the cows come home-- you're not going to make them sensitive.

My point is that if you find them before they commit a crime and can convince them to accept therapy and really work at it, you are likely to prevent both their tragedy and the tragedy of their victims. And this result holds out hope of that.

I'm actually concerned that you're projecting from a study done on criminals to a mandatory health policy for the entire population.

We've been over this twenty times. It's far too early to project that. Instead of a conversation about psychology I've got people claiming there can be such a thing as "forced" cognitive therapy, people talking about psychiatry, and every other damned thing but what I was originally pointing out. AFAICT because of pshrinkophobia.

I have not yet pointed out that the primary characteristic of most mental and emotional problems is that they drive their sufferers to avoid help. They wouldn't be so hard to fix otherwise. But it has been in the back of my mind.

Yes, a criminal with no empathy is dangerous, but what if a psychopath doesn't harm anyone, has no interest in harming anyone, and just wants to live his or her life, unbothered? Why are they being treated like criminals when they haven't committed any crime?

Why are you assuming they're being treated like criminals?

[Schneibster]

Most mental and emotional problems are about what sufferers lack. The ones that aren't about that are so debilitating that sufferers either die or are completely incapable of negotiating human society, much less murdering someone or wanting much of anything.

What the fuck do you know about it?

I'll use a parlance you'll understand: The above quote is a lie.

And I think I'm done with this thread.

Good riddance. All you brought was paranoia.

[Cunt]

You speak only for yourself, Schneibster. I would prefer if you left and hadespussercats stayed. I won't ask you to, though. Because I am not a pompous jack-off.

[Schneibster]

Never said anything different.

Not my fault if you think it's OK to probe corporate VPs but not felons either.

[maiforpeace]

Hades, just put him on ignore, it's easy enough to do. I've been following with interest. Don't leave!!

[Cunt]

Hades, just put him on ignore, it's easy enough to do. I've been following with interest. Don't leave!!

Oh yeah! LOVE that ignore feature.

[Schneibster]

Most mental and emotional problems are problems because one of the symptoms of them is that sufferers avoid treatment.

This is called a "feedback loop" and those, in general, are characteristic of mental and emotional problems.

I said most mental and emotional problems are characterized by what sufferers lack; and I can give the four most common lacks here. To anyone not paranoid of psychology, or suffering and avoiding, these will ring bells:

1. Satiability, that is, the ability to feel satisfaction when you get what you said you wanted and change your strivings to other goals.
2. Flexibility, that is, the ability to admit you were wrong when presented with clear and compelling evidence, and change your opinion or course of action.
3. Identification, that is, the ability to understand how you might feel in another's circumstances or how they might feel in yours (this is the missing thing in sociopaths and psychopaths).
4. Extrapolation, that is, the ability to predict the likely consequences of your actions with good accuracy.

There are others but these four are the most common lacks. People who are physically damaged lack things; people who are emotionally or mentally damaged do too. It's pretty straightforward. If you're not paranoid.