"Climate Change - Doubts, Denials, Scepticism, and Politics"

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Seth
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Re: "Climate Change - Doubts, Denials, Scepticism, and Polit

Post by Seth » Fri Nov 25, 2011 10:47 pm

Schneibster wrote:
The Heartland Institute was the one I caught doing incestuous linking with Inhofe; Inhofe makes a ridiculous claim, links to an article on their site as evidence, the article he links to points to a different article on his site, which points to yet another article on their site, which makes the claim without any link to evidence anywhere nor any pointer toward any source whatsoever.

He thinks climate change is because "we're recovering from the Little Ice Age," which Media Matters characterizes as like "believing basketballs bounce because they're 'recovering from falling.'" http://mediamatters.org/blog/201111010006?frontpage My only quibble with Media Matters is that it's more like believing basketballs sit on the ground for a few hundred years before they bounce.

This individual is an idiot.
So are AGW fear-mongers. What else is new?

By the way, basketballs do bounce because they are recovering from falling. The vertical acceleration of gravity (or downward force of the player's hand) causes the outer skin of the ball to deform and compress the air inside the ball slightly, absorbing some of the energy of the ball, and the elasticity of the ball and the physics that cause the compressed air to expand the ball back to its round shape because the pressure inside is higher than the pressure outside causes an opposite, but not quite equal force to be applied against the floor by the skin of the ball. This "recovery" of the shape of the ball to its round state after being slightly flattened at the point of contact with the floor forces the ball back upwards in what we call a "bounce." Not that this model has anything whatever to do with the claim they are trying desperately, but delusionally, to rebut.

So, it appears that the Media Matters blog is as full of shit about the physics of basketballs as it is about climate science, which is to say that it's completely full of shit, and so is your "argument" (and I use that term loosely too).

And to top it all off, we are in fact still recovering from the Little Ice Age, and so far none of the temperature excursions we've seen in the unfalsified data falls outside the normal historical range of temperatures we've deduced from the various indirect indicators over the past hundreds of thousands or more of years.

All the IPCC propaganda relies upon PREDICTIONS of what climate temperature MIGHT do in the future, based on extremely inaccurate, unproven, flawed and sometimes completely false climate models that are so inaccurate they can't predict what the temperature will be NEXT WEEK, much less five years from now, much less a century from now.

And the other mendaciously elided fact about all the IPCC climate models is that the margin of error in every single one of them subsumes the "mean" temperature prediction "hockey-stick" bullshit within one year. This means that the plus/minus margin of error in the prediction of a temperature rise exceeds the maximum predicted temperature rise very quickly and keeps right on getting wider and wider the farther out the "prediction" (which is no more accurate than digging through the entrails of sheep or chickens) goes, leaving us with an uncertainty that completely subsumes the "hockey-stick" graph and makes it worse than useless as a guide for public policy. It's not just useless, it's a bald-faced lie of unimaginable proportions, and the evidence is now finally coming out.

That's a dirty little secret that the climate "scientists" (and I use that term very loosely) don't want people to know about or understand, because it completely destroys ALL of their predictions, without exception.
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Re: "Climate Change - Doubts, Denials, Scepticism, and Polit

Post by Seth » Fri Nov 25, 2011 10:48 pm

Schneibster wrote:
Coito ergo sum wrote:
Schneibster wrote:
The Heartland Institute was the one I caught doing incestuous linking with Inhofe; Inhofe makes a ridiculous claim, links to an article on their site as evidence, the article he links to points to a different article on his site, which points to yet another article on their site, which makes the claim without any link to evidence anywhere nor any pointer toward any source whatsoever.

He thinks climate change is because "we're recovering from the Little Ice Age," which Media Matters characterizes as like "believing basketballs bounce because they're 'recovering from falling.'" http://mediamatters.org/blog/201111010006?frontpage My only quibble with Media Matters is that it's more like believing basketballs sit on the ground for a few hundred years before they bounce.

This individual is an idiot.
The idiocy of the individual is irrelevant.
It's not irrelevant when evaluating the likelihood that their opinion corresponds to reality.
That much is true, particularly when it comes to evaluating your opinions as they relate to reality.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: "Climate Change - Doubts, Denials, Scepticism, and Polit

Post by Schneibster » Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:24 am

Coito ergo sum wrote:
Schneibster wrote:
Coito ergo sum wrote:
Schneibster wrote:
The Heartland Institute was the one I caught doing incestuous linking with Inhofe; Inhofe makes a ridiculous claim, links to an article on their site as evidence, the article he links to points to a different article on his site, which points to yet another article on their site, which makes the claim without any link to evidence anywhere nor any pointer toward any source whatsoever.

He thinks climate change is because "we're recovering from the Little Ice Age," which Media Matters characterizes as like "believing basketballs bounce because they're 'recovering from falling.'" http://mediamatters.org/blog/201111010006?frontpage My only quibble with Media Matters is that it's more like believing basketballs sit on the ground for a few hundred years before they bounce.

This individual is an idiot.
The idiocy of the individual is irrelevant.
It's not irrelevant when evaluating the likelihood that their opinion corresponds to reality.
Well, if we're comparing mediamatters and the Heartland Institute, I'll call it a draw.
"Fair and balanced" isn't when one side's lying.

This is the strategy called "The Big Lie." The Nazis invented it. Nice company you keep.

You stipulate your source is an idiot. Noted.
Last edited by Schneibster on Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Climate Change - Doubts, Denials, Scepticism, and Polit

Post by Schneibster » Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:26 am

Seth wrote:
Schneibster wrote:
The Heartland Institute was the one I caught doing incestuous linking with Inhofe; Inhofe makes a ridiculous claim, links to an article on their site as evidence, the article he links to points to a different article on his site, which points to yet another article on their site, which makes the claim without any link to evidence anywhere nor any pointer toward any source whatsoever.

He thinks climate change is because "we're recovering from the Little Ice Age," which Media Matters characterizes as like "believing basketballs bounce because they're 'recovering from falling.'" http://mediamatters.org/blog/201111010006?frontpage My only quibble with Media Matters is that it's more like believing basketballs sit on the ground for a few hundred years before they bounce.

This individual is an idiot.
So are AGW fear-mongers.
There aren't any.
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts. -Daniel Patrick Moynihan
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. -Thomas Jefferson
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Re: "Climate Change - Doubts, Denials, Scepticism, and Polit

Post by JimC » Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:40 am

macdoc wrote::funny: :funny: :funny: right wingers are sooooo predictable....

what next....denial of evolution?......oops oh yeah ...y'all got that covered too.. :bored:

fucking retards.........whose on first these days for the Grande Olé Putzes??....Gingrich?? :zombie: :tdown:

:coffee:
G'day, macdoc, long time no hear from...

Cheers, mate!
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Re: "Climate Change - Doubts, Denials, Scepticism, and Polit

Post by Seth » Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:33 pm

Schneibster wrote:"Fair and balanced" isn't when one side's lying.
Of course, we recognize that you're delusional notion of lying is not determinative of who is and is not lying.
This is the strategy called "The Big Lie." The Nazis invented it.
Actually, Karl Marx invented it and made it part of the Marxist dialectic, and Marxists have been using it ever since. Hitler just borrowed it from him.
Nice company you keep.
Unwarranted ad hom noted, for the record, which debunks your specious, mendacious, paltering, perfidious claim that you never insult anyone.
You stipulate your source is an idiot. Noted.
Well, somebody in this conversation is an idiot, and it ain't him, his source or me.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: "Climate Change - Doubts, Denials, Scepticism, and Polit

Post by Seth » Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:35 pm

Schneibster wrote:
Seth wrote:
Schneibster wrote:
The Heartland Institute was the one I caught doing incestuous linking with Inhofe; Inhofe makes a ridiculous claim, links to an article on their site as evidence, the article he links to points to a different article on his site, which points to yet another article on their site, which makes the claim without any link to evidence anywhere nor any pointer toward any source whatsoever.

He thinks climate change is because "we're recovering from the Little Ice Age," which Media Matters characterizes as like "believing basketballs bounce because they're 'recovering from falling.'" http://mediamatters.org/blog/201111010006?frontpage My only quibble with Media Matters is that it's more like believing basketballs sit on the ground for a few hundred years before they bounce.

This individual is an idiot.
So are AGW fear-mongers.
There aren't any.
Duplicitous prevaricator.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: "Climate Change - Doubts, Denials, Scepticism, and Polit

Post by Schneibster » Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:43 am

Seth wrote:
Schneibster wrote:This is the strategy called "The Big Lie." The Nazis invented it.
Actually, Karl Marx invented it and made it part of the Marxist dialectic, and Marxists have been using it ever since. Hitler just borrowed it from him.
Ummm, Hitler first described it in Mein Kampf.

From James Murphy's translation:
Adolf Hitler wrote:But it remained for the Jews, with their unqualified capacity for falsehood, and their fighting comrades, the Marxists, to impute responsibility for the downfall precisely to the man who alone had shown a superhuman will and energy in his effort to prevent the catastrophe which he had foreseen and to save the nation from that hour of complete overthrow and shame. By placing responsibility for the loss of the world war on the shoulders of Ludendorff they took away the weapon of moral right from the only adversary dangerous enough to be likely to succeed in bringing the betrayers of the Fatherland to Justice.
All this was inspired by the principle--which is quite true within itself--that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying.

—Adolf Hitler , Mein Kampf, vol. I, ch. X
So you blame the J000000000000z.

OK.

ETA: New things we learned this week: Seth blames "teh J000000000zz" for Hitler inventing "The Big Lie" as a propaganda technique.
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Re: "Climate Change - Doubts, Denials, Scepticism, and Polit

Post by Coito ergo sum » Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:33 pm

Schneibster wrote:
You stipulate your source is an idiot. Noted.
I don't, and didn't, so stipulate. I don't know if they are an idiot. I don't think the idiocy matters, not when we have the supposedly damning emails. I note that you haven't addressed the content of the actual emails, but you've only attacked the bias of the reporters (and relied upon, incongruously, an extremely biased source, mediamatters).

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Re: "Climate Change - Doubts, Denials, Scepticism, and Polit

Post by Geoff » Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:42 pm

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Re: "Climate Change - Doubts, Denials, Scepticism, and Polit

Post by Tyrannical » Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:28 pm

The Earth has been plenty warmer before then it is now. Remember all those frozen mammoths in the Siberian tundra? Well it wasn't frozen tundra back then.
I'm tired of the cold, so let the Earth heat back up, I'm all for it.
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Re: "Climate Change - Doubts, Denials, Scepticism, and Polit

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:40 pm

Tyrannical wrote:The Earth has been plenty warmer before then it is now. Remember all those frozen mammoths in the Siberian tundra? Well it wasn't frozen tundra back then.
I'm tired of the cold, so let the Earth heat back up, I'm all for it.
The greenhouse gases were much higher during the Carboniferous. This is the era that laid so much plant matter that it took us over 100 years to burn it all.

Hmmm, maybe we're setting up for another round of oil bearing strata?
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Re: "Climate Change - Doubts, Denials, Scepticism, and Polit

Post by Schneibster » Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:15 pm

Coito ergo sum wrote:
Schneibster wrote:
You stipulate your source is an idiot. Noted.
I don't, and didn't, so stipulate. I don't know if they are an idiot. I don't think the idiocy matters, not when we have the supposedly damning emails. I note that you haven't addressed the content of the actual emails, but you've only attacked the bias of the reporters (and relied upon, incongruously, an extremely biased source, mediamatters).
Schneibster wrote:
Coito ergo sum wrote:
Schneibster wrote:
Coito ergo sum wrote:
Schneibster wrote:He thinks climate change is because "we're recovering from the Little Ice Age," which Media Matters characterizes as like "believing basketballs bounce because they're 'recovering from falling.'" http://mediamatters.org/blog/201111010006?frontpage My only quibble with Media Matters is that it's more like believing basketballs sit on the ground for a few hundred years before they bounce.

This individual is an idiot.
The idiocy of the individual is irrelevant.
It's not irrelevant when evaluating the likelihood that their opinion corresponds to reality.
Well, if we're comparing mediamatters and the Heartland Institute, I'll call it a draw.
You stipulate your source is an idiot. Noted.
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Re: "Climate Change - Doubts, Denials, Scepticism, and Polit

Post by Schneibster » Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:16 pm

Tyrannical wrote:The Earth has been plenty warmer before then it is now.
Not when there were humans on it.
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Re: "Climate Change - Doubts, Denials, Scepticism, and Polit

Post by Seth » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:10 am

Schneibster wrote:
Tyrannical wrote:The Earth has been plenty warmer before then it is now.
Not when there were humans on it.
So? This does not mean that humans cannot survive quite nicely on a "greenhouse earth" planet, as opposed to the "icehouse earth" environment we've been living in for the last long while. If the overall sea level temperature is 82.4 degrees and the lowest polar temperature is 32 degrees, which is an estimation of the temperatures that might be expected in a "greenhouse earth" environment, humans can adapt very nicely to those temperatures, and the lack of any glaciers on the planet, including at the poles, will not be fatal to humanity in any way. It just means the ski industry will have to move indoors.

Big deal. So what?

As for sea-level rise due to melting of the glaciers...well...adapt or die. Since we've got easily a century or more before any of the temperature excursions from "normal" (whatever that is on a planet where the average temperature is ALWAYS changing over time) raise the seal levels much at all, there's plenty of time to move populations, rebuild cities, erect polders and sea-walls and otherwise adapt to a warmer climate.

Frankly, humankind is much, much safer during the warmer periods, which comprise 80 percent of earth's history (whereas "icehouse earth" comprises only 20 percent), because humans can easily survive in a warmer climate, but cannot survive at all in areas of widespread glaciation where it's extremely cold and no plant life exists.

So, bring on the warmer climate, it just means I can get rid of my winter jackets and will have to take up surfing instead of skiing.

Big deal. Who cares? Adapt or die.
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"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

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