Man forced to stand on 7 hr. flight due to obese neighbor.

[Schneibster]

There was discrimination and fraud.
Favoritism for the fat guy who was allowed to trespass on other passengers.
Fraud because the non-fat guy didn't get to use what he had paid for.

The non-fat guy is entitled to not only a refund of the ticket price, but also some amount of recompense--come goodly amount--for his inconvenience.

The crew should be given official disciplinary action for being so fucking ignorant and enabling the liability.

You and I agree on this one. If I were the skinny guy I might not sue but I would never fly that airline again, I'd write them and tell them why, and I'd tell the story every time I had the opportunity.

I do not fly American Airlines for a very similar reason. They sent me a five hundred dollar voucher and I sent it back with a nastygram. I was Platinum frequent flyer; I got a call from the Vice President of Customer Service or so he claimed. I tore a strip off him an inch wide from his crown to the tip of his big toe. A year later I was Platinum on United and they've never done anything similar to me.

The beauty of capitalism in which there is healthy competition in the private sector.

Baggage fees.

I notice the banks gave up on their plan to charge customers a bunch of new fees.

The airlines never gave theirs up though. Betcha they never do.

[Jason]

I hope the guy sues both the neighbor and the airline... he paid for something he didn't get, not to mention the active discomfort involved

Oh, they'll settle out of court, with a gag order no doubt.

Do you really think the gag will help the other fellow lose weight?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I hope the guy sues both the neighbor and the airline... he paid for something he didn't get, not to mention the active discomfort involved

Oh, they'll settle out of court, with a gag order no doubt.

Do you really think the gag will help the other fellow lose weight?

Depends on what he gags on.

[Coito ergo sum]

There was discrimination and fraud.
Favoritism for the fat guy who was allowed to trespass on other passengers.
Fraud because the non-fat guy didn't get to use what he had paid for.

The non-fat guy is entitled to not only a refund of the ticket price, but also some amount of recompense--come goodly amount--for his inconvenience.

The crew should be given official disciplinary action for being so fucking ignorant and enabling the liability.

You and I agree on this one. If I were the skinny guy I might not sue but I would never fly that airline again, I'd write them and tell them why, and I'd tell the story every time I had the opportunity.

I do not fly American Airlines for a very similar reason. They sent me a five hundred dollar voucher and I sent it back with a nastygram. I was Platinum frequent flyer; I got a call from the Vice President of Customer Service or so he claimed. I tore a strip off him an inch wide from his crown to the tip of his big toe. A year later I was Platinum on United and they've never done anything similar to me.

The beauty of capitalism in which there is healthy competition in the private sector.

Baggage fees.

I notice the banks gave up on their plan to charge customers a bunch of new fees.

The airlines never gave theirs up though. Betcha they never do.

I travel a lot, and they're not unreasonable, really. But, flying airplanes costs money, and if you have 200 people on a plane flying from NY to LA, you have to pay for a portion of the initial cost of the plane, maintenance, insurance, fuel, labor costs (pilot, copilot, several flight attendants), baggage handlers, security check-in, ticket-check-in, gate fees...the list goes on and on...I am very amazed that the cost of flying around the US is as cheap as it is. I can get tickets from Tampa to Newark for from $250 to $400 - and for that someone will build an airplane, staff it, fuel it, stock it, maintain it, clean it, insure it, and handle my bags, and take me 1700 miles in about 2.5 hours.

[Gallstones]

Bottom line is that airlines need accomodate obese people, the way they do the handicapped. How do you know that a handicapped person didn't become handicapped due to their own fault, like driving drunk? Why do they deserve more consideration than someone who is obese?

Fuck that. Obese people, or those with large goiters, do not need special accommodations. There is an easier, more respectful way.
It is quite simple, as I see it. (for the future, I mean)

They should charge everyone as a 700kg passenger, and offer discounts for each kilo under you are (including baggage)

This would encourage efficient packing, including packing on the kilos. Not at all discriminatory either, since EVERYONE can apply for the discount.

It costs per kilo to lift shit up in an aircraft. It makes perfect sense to me to charge people by the kilo.

Plus, lots of people are ashamed of their weight, so lots of them would pay full fare, rather than stand on a scale in front of the other passengers. This would make more money for the airlines, and only off those who could afford their vanity.

That's discrimination, though, since minorities, like blacks and hispanics, have higher rates of obesity than whites, so they'd pay disproportionately high fares.

This is reaching. Racism is treating a group differently. The issue is body weight.

I think physics should be the determining factor--everyone is to be weighed along with all baggage and cargo. Once the operating capacity has been reached, short of a margin for safety, then no one and nothing else gets on. And passengers should have to pay based on the percentage their combined body and baggage weight contributes to the total operating cost of the plane.

Moreover, pregnant women would be charged more than the non-pregnant due to their pregnancy, and they wouldn't be obese.

Pregnancy does not make a woman obese. If she still fits in the seat and can still buckle the belt, then she is equal to a non-pregnant passenger. Being pregnant and being obese are separate considerations. Pregnancy does not excuse obesity and obesity is not an obligate factor to pregnancy.

Women have more body fat than men in general, and it's harder for them to lose weight than men, so their ability to reduce their flight costs is less through no fault of their own. However, men are generally heavier than women, and would, of course, be paying disproportionately more than women. And, don't get me started on the Samoans and the Sumo Wrestlers....

Women do have a normal body weight range. Having a higher percentage of fat is not the same as being obese. Normal weight women would still fit comfortably in a seat despite having a higher percentage of their body weight given to fat. So, being female is not an issue. Some normal weight men who are not obese might not fit comfortably in the seat. But I doubt even they would be so physically intrusive on their immediate neighbors as to create an inconvenience or a hazard.

[Santa_Claus]

Airline should have offloaded one of them - but didn't want to spend the money.

So they compromised the safety of all onboard by allowing an unrestrained lethal missile to wander around the aircraft. I suspect the pilots were in Al-Quaida or were too busy whacking off to full body security scans of kids. (you know someone is - just a matter or who, not if).

If it had been me that had been bumped from my seat, would make damned sure I fell over and injured myself during the flight.....on video.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

How would Auric Goldfinger have handled this?

[hadespussercats]

Bigotry against the morbidly obese is totally justified.

You don't believe in addiction or mental illness? Thyroid trouble?

I do, but I have no interest in the reasons why people do what they do, I judge them based on outcome. If you are of a size where your very presence is a constant inconvenience to those around you and you do not take the needed measures to either correct it or compensate for it, then I will judge you for it.

If your judgment is restricted to simple, truthful, observation, i.e.-- This man clearly won't fit into the space we have allotted for him on this flight, so we should either make arrangements or refund him his money-- then I have no problem with that.

But if your judgment is along the lines of-- Look at that fattie. What a lazy fuck. He doesn't give a shit about anything but the next thing he stuffs in his mouth. He disgusts me.-- then I have a problem with your judgment, and I don't find it justified.

How about, "Look at that fattie. He doesn't seem to give a shit that he's inconveniencing this other guy. He had to know that he wasn't going to fit, but he waited till the last moment to board. Why, so they didn't have time to charge him for an extra ticket? Why doesn't he stand up so the other guy doesn't have to? Oh yeah, that's right because he's fat. Inconsiderate lazy fuck."

You don't know any of that. Maybe he was trying to get to some important event-- sick family, or soemthing-- and couldn't afford two seats. And maybe he didn't know there were no empty seats left. And maybe he didn't have a clear idea of how hard it would be to fit into a single seat-- maybe he's not a regular flyer (actually, given what happened, I think it's a safe bet he's not a regular flyer.)

And as I pointed out earlier, maybe he wasn't standing because no one would be able to pass him in the aisle. Or maybe his knees couldn't take standing that long.

He acknowledged that he was the other guy's "worst nightmare." Which indicates that he acknowledges the inconvenience, but can't do anything about it. He can't get off the plane mid-air, can he?

I think this is a shitty situation all around, and what happened to the non-obese passenger was entirely unacceptable. But the obese man is not necessarily a villain.

[Svartalf]

How would Auric Goldfinger have handled this?

Dead stewardesses painted gold?

[Warren Dew]

You don't know any of that. Maybe he was trying to get to some important event-- sick family, or soemthing-- and couldn't afford two seats. And maybe he didn't know there were no empty seats left. And maybe he didn't have a clear idea of how hard it would be to fit into a single seat-- maybe he's not a regular flyer (actually, given what happened, I think it's a safe bet he's not a regular flyer.)

And as I pointed out earlier, maybe he wasn't standing because no one would be able to pass him in the aisle. Or maybe his knees couldn't take standing that long.

He acknowledged that he was the other guy's "worst nightmare." Which indicates that he acknowledges the inconvenience, but can't do anything about it. He can't get off the plane mid-air, can he?

I think the acknowledgement indicates that he knew he couldn't fit into a single seat. I don't think it's at all clear that he's not a regular flyer - there do exist people who just impose on other people as a matter of course, as long as they can get away with it.

I don't think the "can't afford two seats" is a legitimate excuse, either. What about people who can't afford one seat? Should fat people who can't afford a big car automatically get one for the price of a small car?

That said, we're only getting one side of the story here. Just because someone claims he was "forced to stand up" doesn't make the claim true. He may just have preferred to stand up for most of the flight.

[Schneibster]

I travel a lot, and they're not unreasonable, really.

I flew three hundred thousand miles in five years.

The airlines never, ever get rid of a fee. Ever. No matter how bad they get pwnt for it. The only way a fee goes away is if someone makes a law prohibiting it. They collude and there's only one airline that doesn't, and that's Southwest. They should be taken to court (except Southwest) for violations of the Sherman act, but the US won't because of the sweet deals for transport of US military personnel. Yet another way private companies are ripping off the taxpayers after privatization.

But, flying airplanes costs money, and if you have 200 people on a plane flying from NY to LA, you have to pay for a portion of the initial cost of the plane, maintenance, insurance, fuel, labor costs (pilot, copilot, several flight attendants), baggage handlers, security check-in, ticket-check-in, gate fees...the list goes on and on...I am very amazed that the cost of flying around the US is as cheap as it is. I can get tickets from Tampa to Newark for from $250 to $400 - and for that someone will build an airplane, staff it, fuel it, stock it, maintain it, clean it, insure it, and handle my bags, and take me 1700 miles in about 2.5 hours.

Put it in the ticket fees. It was that way before. WTF is the deal with all the fees? I'll tell you: the same reason a dog licks its balls. Nothing more.

[Geoff]

Put it in the ticket fees. It was that way before. WTF is the deal with all the fees? I'll tell you: the same reason a dog licks its balls. Nothing more.

Not sure how they structure it over there, but I prefer a low-cost basic price with optional extras for lots of luggage, but then I travel light anyway. The budget airlines here work it that way, and for all their faults they're still better value than the established ones like BA.

[Schneibster]

Put it in the ticket fees. It was that way before. WTF is the deal with all the fees? I'll tell you: the same reason a dog licks its balls. Nothing more.

Not sure how they structure it over there, but I prefer a low-cost basic price with optional extras for lots of luggage, but then I travel light anyway. The budget airlines here work it that way, and for all their faults they're still better value than the established ones like BA.

The only one like that here on the West Coast is Southwest.

The key here is that they stick you with extra fees at checkin. That's so their price on the Internet is the lowest, so they can sucker you. It's deceptive, particularly for vacationers because there's no warning about it on their sites. Some of them charge for any bag except a carryon, and restrict carryons ridiculously to try to stick you with the fee.

[Geoff]

Put it in the ticket fees. It was that way before. WTF is the deal with all the fees? I'll tell you: the same reason a dog licks its balls. Nothing more.

Not sure how they structure it over there, but I prefer a low-cost basic price with optional extras for lots of luggage, but then I travel light anyway. The budget airlines here work it that way, and for all their faults they're still better value than the established ones like BA.

The only one like that here on the West Coast is Southwest.

The key here is that they stick you with extra fees at checkin. That's so their price on the Internet is the lowest, so they can sucker you. It's deceptive, particularly for vacationers because there's no warning about it on their sites. Some of them charge for any bag except a carryon, and restrict carryons ridiculously to try to stick you with the fee.

RyanAir and the like do similar, in that they advertise incredibly low prices on the internet (flights for a penny, sometimes!), but all the extras are shown on the website, and charged in the online ticket, as long as you say how much luggage you're taking. Take more than that, though, and you're doomed!

[Warren Dew]

They collude and there's only one airline that doesn't, and that's Southwest.

The original article cited three other problematic cases in the box at the bottom. Two of the three cases were from Southwest.

Southwest isn't any better than the other airlines, just different.