the BBC wrote:New funding method 'will delay' flood defences in Kent
A new method of calculating flood defences funding will delay some schemes in Kent, according to the Environment Agency.
The agency said the county had the highest flood risk in the country.
From April 2012, each scheme's government funding will be determined by the benefits it would bring and how many people it would protect.
When this figure is less than its actual cost the agency will need to find additional funding.
A Kent County Council (KCC) report published on Monday said contributions to funding for flood defence schemes in Kent may come from council tax, charities or private companies.
£2m shortfall
The strengthening of sea defences in Hythe, where a large part of the town is below sea level, is estimated to cost £8m but the new method of calculating government funding values it at £6m.
Therefore, £2m additional funding needs to be found which could delay the scheme until 2014 or 2015.
Ian Nunn, an Environment Agency flood defence engineer in South Kent, said: "What the government is asking us to do is to try and squeeze money out of places that benefit from our defences, where that money might exist."
'Reducing costs'
Mr Nunn added: "Places like Hythe and most of the south Kent coast we've got to look at ways that we can reduce the cost because that will reduce the priority score and look at where contributions may exist."
Mr Nunn said additional funding from Pfizer and KCC had already been secured for work in Sandwich.
"Pfizer has put in £6.5m, KCC are putting in £3.5m-4m and that makes a massive contribution.", he said.
The new funding calculation method replaces the current model of schemes being funded in full by the government or not at all.
Kent flood defences delayed.
- Horwood Beer-Master
- "...a complete Kentish hog"
- Posts: 7061
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:34 pm
- Location: Wandering somewhere around the Darenth Valley - Kent
- Contact:
Kent flood defences delayed.

-
- "I" Self-Perceive Recursively
- Posts: 7824
- Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:57 am
- Contact:
Re: Kent flood defences delayed.
Surely this is precisely the sort of situation where there should be no question that the investment is worth it. If flood defences are needed, build them immediately and you can pay for it later with the knowledge that the place isn't going to get flooded.
[Disclaimer - if this is comes across like I think I know what I'm talking about, I want to make it clear that I don't. I'm just trying to get my thoughts down]
- Schneibster
- Asker of inconvenient questions
- Posts: 3976
- Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:22 pm
- About me: I hate cranks.
- Location: Late. I'm always late.
- Contact:
Re: Kent flood defences delayed.
What's your opinion on it, Horwood?
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts. -Daniel Patrick Moynihan
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. -Thomas Jefferson

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. -Thomas Jefferson

- Clinton Huxley
- 19th century monkeybitch.
- Posts: 23746
- Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:34 pm
- Contact:
Re: Kent flood defences delayed.
Let the south sink into the sea, I say. The North will rise. Literally.
"I grow old … I grow old …
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled"
AND MERRY XMAS TO ONE AND All!
http://25kv.co.uk/date_counter.php?date ... 20counting!!![/img-sig]
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled"
AND MERRY XMAS TO ONE AND All!
- Horwood Beer-Master
- "...a complete Kentish hog"
- Posts: 7061
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:34 pm
- Location: Wandering somewhere around the Darenth Valley - Kent
- Contact:
Re: Kent flood defences delayed.
Obviously a balance is required. It would be vastly uneconomical to protect every square-inch of land from the sea, and in the case of, say, the Wantsum Channel, which appears from what I can tell on the map (I must actually pay that area a visit one day) to be mostly farmland, we have to look at what is the cheaper option - the cost of protecting the land, or the cost of building road and rail bridges across to the Isle of Thannet and allowing the land to flood. Obviously if we pick the latter option, there are still individual places in that area that must be protected, such as coastal (or 'former-and-once-again-to-be coastal') towns.Schneibster wrote:What's your opinion on it, Horwood?
When in comes to the whole Dungeness/Romney Marsh area (Hythe included) that area is far to important, historically, culturally and ecologically, to be allowed to be reclaimed by the sea - especially for the sake of a couple-of-million quid as mentioned in the article. Also there's a nuclear power station down on the tip of Dungeness, even if it's shut down by then, is it really safe to let the site flood?
When it comes to the North coast along the Thames Estuary, it's again a balancing act. The North Kent Marshes are a vitally important site ecologically, particularly for migratory birds. If any of those marshes get taken by the sea, I think it's important to allow other areas to flood to create new marshland in their place.
The other issue in the north is the flood defences for coastal towns and the mouths of rivers. Any short term cost cutting there could prove an enormously expensive false economy if we're caught-out by a "1953 style" North Sea storm surge.
I'm safe enough personally where I am (up a hill) but Dartford town centre could be one hell of a mess if the flood-gates where the Darent joins the Thames are overwhelmed.

- Svartalf
- Offensive Grail Keeper
- Posts: 41172
- Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:42 pm
- Location: Paris France
- Contact:
Re: Kent flood defences delayed.
Kent needs no flood defences... if the place would just sink into the channel, or turn into an actual bog rather than being a metaphorical swamp, the world would be a somewhat better place.
Embrace the Darkness, it needs a hug
PC stands for "Patronizing Cocksucker" Randy Ping
PC stands for "Patronizing Cocksucker" Randy Ping
- Horwood Beer-Master
- "...a complete Kentish hog"
- Posts: 7061
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:34 pm
- Location: Wandering somewhere around the Darenth Valley - Kent
- Contact:
Re: Kent flood defences delayed.
FixedSvartalf wrote:Essex needs no flood defences... if the place would just sink into the channel, or turn into an actual bog rather than being a metaphorical swamp, the world would be a somewhat better place.


- Schneibster
- Asker of inconvenient questions
- Posts: 3976
- Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:22 pm
- About me: I hate cranks.
- Location: Late. I'm always late.
- Contact:
Re: Kent flood defences delayed.
I will hit a map and see that, I've got a vague idea around the Thames but get a bit lost too far north or southwest of there.Horwood Beer-Master wrote:<detail>Schneibster wrote:What's your opinion on it, Horwood?
How likely do you think it is it'll get done after the delay? Is the will for funding there? They're talking about council tax, that's more-or-less like our state taxes but on a county scale, I guess. Are the votes there for that?
Which way do you favor? The council tax? Taxing corporations? Waiting for donations (I expect not from your general tone)?
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts. -Daniel Patrick Moynihan
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. -Thomas Jefferson

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. -Thomas Jefferson

- Horwood Beer-Master
- "...a complete Kentish hog"
- Posts: 7061
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:34 pm
- Location: Wandering somewhere around the Darenth Valley - Kent
- Contact:
Re: Kent flood defences delayed.
The problem is that Kent County Council is Tory controlled, and Kent largely represented by Tory MP's, and Tories would tend to be against higher taxes and spending. - On the other hand council tax can often hit the little folks quite badly, so maybe they won't care so much about raising it. Personally I would have central government chip in more for these kinds of things, but I can't see it happening soon - and certainly not with this current government.Schneibster wrote:I will hit a map and see that, I've got a vague idea around the Thames but get a bit lost too far north or southwest of there.Horwood Beer-Master wrote:<detail>Schneibster wrote:What's your opinion on it, Horwood?
How likely do you think it is it'll get done after the delay? Is the will for funding there? They're talking about council tax, that's more-or-less like our state taxes but on a county scale, I guess. Are the votes there for that?
Which way do you favor? The council tax? Taxing corporations? Waiting for donations (I expect not from your general tone)?
The other problem when it comes to political will is that - except in a very few areas - I don't feel the issue of flood defences is very high in the electorate's minds right now, and unfortunately I think it would take another 1953-type flood to make a lot of folks aware of the problem. I doubt most folks living in Dartford for example even realise there is a potential flood-risk to the town, in spite of the fact that the last floods to hit are within the memories of the older inhabitants.
(As I type this it occurs to me that a lot of the at-risk areas in North Kent, also tend to be the more Labour-leaning areas politically, I wonder how, if at-all, that plays into the whole political dynamic.)
Personally, as with most things, I'd lean towards progressive income/corporation taxes, in some form or other, to pay for the building and maintenance of infrastructure - and I'd include flood defences in that.
Basically, I can't believe that the long-term cost to the economy of a few companies and rich folks pissing-off because they don't like the tax regime, can possibly outweigh the cost to the economy of everything needed for the basic functioning of society collapsing down around us.

- Svartalf
- Offensive Grail Keeper
- Posts: 41172
- Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:42 pm
- Location: Paris France
- Contact:
Re: Kent flood defences delayed.
Well, when Kent gets flooded, maybe voters will understand why it happened and send the tories back home rather than to Whitehall.
Embrace the Darkness, it needs a hug
PC stands for "Patronizing Cocksucker" Randy Ping
PC stands for "Patronizing Cocksucker" Randy Ping
- Schneibster
- Asker of inconvenient questions
- Posts: 3976
- Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:22 pm
- About me: I hate cranks.
- Location: Late. I'm always late.
- Contact:
Re: Kent flood defences delayed.
Clearer now with the map.
Part of the thing, I think, is that Kent is something of a collection of bedroom communities for London, and those folks tend to be Tories or at least lean that way, right? Also, in those kinds of bedroom communities, I think there's more mobility and so shorter memory. How close am I on those?
Hope you get the money before the flood shows up. I hear ya about livin' on top of a hill- I do. One tall enough to stay safe in a two hundred foot tsunami- I live on the Pacific Ring of Fire and I never forget it. Floods meant a lot more to me when I had to commute regularly to Silicon Valley. Nowadays, not so much.
Part of the thing, I think, is that Kent is something of a collection of bedroom communities for London, and those folks tend to be Tories or at least lean that way, right? Also, in those kinds of bedroom communities, I think there's more mobility and so shorter memory. How close am I on those?
Hope you get the money before the flood shows up. I hear ya about livin' on top of a hill- I do. One tall enough to stay safe in a two hundred foot tsunami- I live on the Pacific Ring of Fire and I never forget it. Floods meant a lot more to me when I had to commute regularly to Silicon Valley. Nowadays, not so much.
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts. -Daniel Patrick Moynihan
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. -Thomas Jefferson

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. -Thomas Jefferson

- Horwood Beer-Master
- "...a complete Kentish hog"
- Posts: 7061
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:34 pm
- Location: Wandering somewhere around the Darenth Valley - Kent
- Contact:
Re: Kent flood defences delayed.
Depends how it all gets spun in the media probably "extraordinary catastrophe - where do we go from here" or "preventable catastrophe - who's to blame".Svartalf wrote:Well, when Kent gets flooded, maybe voters will understand why it happened and send the tories back home rather than to Whitehall.
Also Labour would have to be careful about how to react, parties can face voter backlash if they're perceived to be too eagerly 'jumping on' major disasters for political gain.
Also, of course, a lot of the solid Tory-heartland in Kent, in Sevenoaks or the Weald for example, would not be directly affected in the least.
As much as I'd like to see the Tories routed in Kent, I think the most that could be hoped for in the aftermath of major floods is that flood defences become a political issue.

- Svartalf
- Offensive Grail Keeper
- Posts: 41172
- Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:42 pm
- Location: Paris France
- Contact:
Re: Kent flood defences delayed.
I don't hope for catastrophe, but if they don't take proper precautions, and stuff happens... heads SHOULD roll.
Embrace the Darkness, it needs a hug
PC stands for "Patronizing Cocksucker" Randy Ping
PC stands for "Patronizing Cocksucker" Randy Ping
- Horwood Beer-Master
- "...a complete Kentish hog"
- Posts: 7061
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:34 pm
- Location: Wandering somewhere around the Darenth Valley - Kent
- Contact:
Re: Kent flood defences delayed.
Is "bedroom communities" an American term for "commuter town"? If so there are plenty of those in North-West Kent, including my home town of Swanley (I currently live in Dartford, but I'm from Swanley). I'm not sure though how much the existence of such places is connected with Tory support. The Tories still seem to get enough votes in southern and eastern areas of Kent, as well as in less well connected (transport-wise) rural-ish areas in the north and west, where few people are likely to commute to London for work.Schneibster wrote:Clearer now with the map.
Part of the thing, I think, is that Kent is something of a collection of bedroom communities for London, and those folks tend to be Tories or at least lean that way, right? Also, in those kinds of bedroom communities, I think there's more mobility and so shorter memory. How close am I on those?
Hope you get the money before the flood shows up. I hear ya about livin' on top of a hill- I do. One tall enough to stay safe in a two hundred foot tsunami- I live on the Pacific Ring of Fire and I never forget it. Floods meant a lot more to me when I had to commute regularly to Silicon Valley. Nowadays, not so much.
I think it's more the case that the Tory vote is connected (here as elsewhere) with people who are well off and therefore have the Tory-party on their side, or, rather more to the point perhaps, with people who believe they are well off and believe the Tories are on their side.
How accurate their beliefs in either of those things may be however...

- Schneibster
- Asker of inconvenient questions
- Posts: 3976
- Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:22 pm
- About me: I hate cranks.
- Location: Late. I'm always late.
- Contact:
Re: Kent flood defences delayed.
Yes.Horwood Beer-Master wrote:Is "bedroom communities" an American term for "commuter town"?
Right, it's the same way here. The rich people, the wannabes, and the rural folks who don't want anybody to do anything are the Republicans. I don't suppose you get quite the religious crowd we do along with that but you've got your share lately I think.Horwood Beer-Master wrote:If so there are plenty of those in North-West Kent, including my home town of Swanley (I currently live in Dartford, but I'm from Swanley). I'm not sure though how much the existence of such places is connected with Tory support. The Tories still seem to get enough votes in southern and eastern areas of Kent, as well as in less well connected (transport-wise) rural-ish areas in the north and west, where few people are likely to commute to London for work.
I think it's more the case that the Tory vote is connected (here as elsewhere) with people who are well off and therefore have the Tory-party on their side, or, rather more to the point perhaps, with people who believe they are well off and believe the Tories are on their side.
How accurate their beliefs in either of those things may be however...
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts. -Daniel Patrick Moynihan
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. -Thomas Jefferson

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. -Thomas Jefferson

Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 25 guests