Police Pepper Spray Peaceful UC Davis Students

[JimC]

Can I pepper spray cops?

Try it and see what happens. Think of it as a research project...

[Gawd]

Can I pepper spray cops?

Try it and see what happens. Think of it as a research project...

If a cop pepper sprayed you for no reason, wouldn't you want me to pepper spray the cop to end the attack? And if he started beating you with a stick, wouldn't you want me to taser him?

[FBM]

Damn hippies. It probably improved their smell. [/cartman]

[charlou]

...I heard they used the pepper spray because the students were obstructing their ability to leave, and that they were surrounded by a hostile crowd at the time...

Apart from being a weak argument, this is evidentally not the case. If you watch the entire video you'll see that the police were not on the inside of the sit-in.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Can I pepper spray cops?

Try it and see what happens. Think of it as a research project...

If a cop pepper sprayed you for no reason, wouldn't you want me to pepper spray the cop to end the attack? And if he started beating you with a stick, wouldn't you want me to taser him?

Please, please, please field test this.

[Gallstones2]

Can I pepper spray cops?

Try it and see what happens. Think of it as a research project...

If a cop pepper sprayed you for no reason, wouldn't you want me to pepper spray the cop to end the attack? And if he started beating you with a stick, wouldn't you want me to taser him?

Yes Please field test this , but let me be able to see the results

[Seth]

Guess they should have gotten up off the sidewalk when told to do so.

Not taken up arms and shot the shit out of the cops then?

They could have tried that I suppose. But why? Plenty of places to engage in free speech and to petition your government for redress of grievances that don't obstruct public sidewalks, passageways or streets where you won't be bothered by the police.

Their right to protest does not outweigh the right of others to use the public sidewalks or streets free of obstruction I'm afraid. They are entitled to free speech, they are not entitled to an audience, nor are they entitled to prevent people from going about their lawful occasions in order to force them to listen. When they do such things, the police have all the authority they need to roust them and send them on their way using whatever force the protesters cause them to need to use to accomplish that goal. That's all that happened here. They were warned, they refused to comply with a lawful order, they got hosed with pepper spray. It's all their fault and I have absolutely no sympathy for them, or for the little old Leftist who got hosed either.

[Seth]

My posts were posted as I watched it unfold ...


In the end, aside from the pepper spray which was abhorrent, I'm left with mixed feelings about the action of the police, who seemed to be retreating in the end?


If it ended on the note that footage did, I'm glad it didn't get worse than what it was.

I heard they used the pepper spray because the students were obstructing their ability to leave, and that they were surrounded by a hostile crowd at the time.

I note that all the people standing to the side, on the grass, weren't sprayed. Perhaps that's because they obeyed instructions not to obstruct a sidewalk or passageway. There's a clue there for the idiots who got what they deserved. When one crosses the line from peaceful and law-abiding gathering to petition for redress of grievances into unlawful actions, one chances tear gas and pepper spray.

Scary floor sitters. There is no way the pigs could have walked around them. Admit it they were just being cunts

They were clearing a public sidewalk of persons illegally obstructing it. That's their job. I'm glad they are doing their job. The rights of the general public to free and unobstructed use of their public sidewalks and streets outweighs the rights of protesters to obstruct them I'm afraid. They should learn that and stand aside when ordered to do so. It's just exactly that simple.

[Seth]

Guess they should have gotten up off the sidewalk when told to do so.

It's amazing how easily libertarians switch to authoritarianism at the drop of a hat when it suits them.

LIbertarians have nothing against the use of force in self-defense. Those protesters were initiating force against both the police and the general public by unlawfully obstructing a public sidewalk, and reasonable force to remove them is perfectly within the Libertarian code of ethics.

No, wait - don't tell me. The campus is private property so they can do as they please, right?

No, the campus is public property, and protesters have no right to obstruct or impede the use of that public sidewalk by police or anyone else. That's an initiation of force.

...I heard they used the pepper spray because the students were obstructing their ability to leave, and that they were surrounded by a hostile crowd at the time...

Two points. Firstly, even if you dispute the right of those students to obstruct a sidewalk, pepper spray is still surely a massive overkill response,

No, it's not. It's a perfectly reasonable response that protects the police from being injured trying to drag the protesters away and potentially having to fight with them. The spray both induces them to move, and if not, it helps prevent them from violent resistance. The protesters chose to be sprayed. They were told to move, they were told they would be sprayed, more than once as I hear it, and they refused to move. The burden is entirely on them and the police did what we, the People require them to do, which is to keep public right-of-way clear of protesters so that they cannot unlawfully infringe on the superior right of the public to use those sidewalks and streets. It's just exactly that simple.

and secondly if they surrounding crowd were really genuinely 'hostile' (and I stress if), why were they not pepper-sprayed instead, given that that would have actually been an incontrovertibly legitimate use of the stuff?

...When one crosses the line from peaceful and law-abiding gathering to petition for redress of grievances into unlawful actions, one chances tear gas and pepper spray.

And bullets? Where would you draw the line exactly? Summery execution on the spot for the slightest transgression of the law in the presence of a cop who's formally warned you?

Hyperbolic red herring. Deadly force is not authorized in such situations, although deadly force might well be authorized if a riot ensued. Fortunately, our police are very reluctant to use deadly force during riots, even when they clearly have full legal authority to do so, like when someone is throwing Molotov Cocktails at them. Instead they use tear gas and pepper spray, which is painful and debilitating, but not permanently harmful or deadly.

Pepper spray is a perfectly acceptable way to force people out of an area where they are not permitted to be without requiring other, more harmful and potentially deadly force like nightsticks, rubber bullets and baton rounds.

Here's a clue: When the police tell you to get up and move off the sidewalk onto the grass next to the sidewalk, do so. Then they won't have to pepper spray you.

[Seth]

Can I pepper spray cops?

Try it and see what happens. Think of it as a research project...

If a cop pepper sprayed you for no reason, wouldn't you want me to pepper spray the cop to end the attack? And if he started beating you with a stick, wouldn't you want me to taser him?

Of course, but that does not obtain here because the cops had a perfectly legitimate reason to spray the persons who were illegally obstructing a public sidewalk who refused numerous orders to move. Which makes your argument a red herring.

[Audley Strange]

Guess they should have gotten up off the sidewalk when told to do so.

Not taken up arms and shot the shit out of the cops then?

They could have tried that I suppose. But why? Plenty of places to engage in free speech and to petition your government for redress of grievances that don't obstruct public sidewalks, passageways or streets where you won't be bothered by the police.

Their right to protest does not outweigh the right of others to use the public sidewalks or streets free of obstruction I'm afraid. They are entitled to free speech, they are not entitled to an audience, nor are they entitled to prevent people from going about their lawful occasions in order to force them to listen. When they do such things, the police have all the authority they need to roust them and send them on their way using whatever force the protesters cause them to need to use to accomplish that goal. That's all that happened here. They were warned, they refused to comply with a lawful order, they got hosed with pepper spray. It's all their fault and I have absolutely no sympathy for them, or for the little old Leftist who got hosed either.

Ah I was only playing with ye. You know that whole the "tree to freedom is juiced with the blood of peasants and tyrants" schtick?

I see it as basically a challenge to authority and a reaction to that challenge. It's the fashion hit of 2011.

[Seth]

Guess they should have gotten up off the sidewalk when told to do so.

Not taken up arms and shot the shit out of the cops then?

They could have tried that I suppose. But why? Plenty of places to engage in free speech and to petition your government for redress of grievances that don't obstruct public sidewalks, passageways or streets where you won't be bothered by the police.

Their right to protest does not outweigh the right of others to use the public sidewalks or streets free of obstruction I'm afraid. They are entitled to free speech, they are not entitled to an audience, nor are they entitled to prevent people from going about their lawful occasions in order to force them to listen. When they do such things, the police have all the authority they need to roust them and send them on their way using whatever force the protesters cause them to need to use to accomplish that goal. That's all that happened here. They were warned, they refused to comply with a lawful order, they got hosed with pepper spray. It's all their fault and I have absolutely no sympathy for them, or for the little old Leftist who got hosed either.

Ah I was only playing with ye. You know that whole the "tree to freedom is juiced with the blood of peasants and tyrants" schtick?

I see it as basically a challenge to authority and a reaction to that challenge. It's the fashion hit of 2011.

Well, it's really the Marxist dialectic again. Note how the cops involved have been put on "administrative leave" as a result of the bad press? They will be eventually cleared completely, but in the meantime the Sheriff will get to defuse the intent of the protesters, which was civil disobedience intended to provoke exactly that response as a part of the Marxist plan for racheting up the violence of the Occupy movement. They knew they'd be sprayed and arrested, and were willing to go through it to advance the dialectic and "embarrass" the police, who are being excoriated for doing exactly what they were told and empowered to do. Fortunately, most people (outside of the leftist agitators and political flacks) understand the puppet-play that was taking place and they sympathize with the police, who have a job to do protecting the rest of us from the bad behavior of Marxist useful idiots and dupes.

[Audley Strange]

Well, it's really the Marxist dialectic again. Note how the cops involved have been put on "administrative leave" as a result of the bad press? They will be eventually cleared completely, but in the meantime the Sheriff will get to defuse the intent of the protesters, which was civil disobedience intended to provoke exactly that response as a part of the Marxist plan for racheting up the violence of the Occupy movement. They knew they'd be sprayed and arrested, and were willing to go through it to advance the dialectic and "embarrass" the police, who are being excoriated for doing exactly what they were told and empowered to do. Fortunately, most people (outside of the leftist agitators and political flacks) understand the puppet-play that was taking place and they sympathize with the police, who have a job to do protecting the rest of us from the bad behavior of Marxist useful idiots and dupes.

Yeah no one goes to protest to be ignored and I've known enough here in the U.K. who laugh at "protest virgins" popping their cherry with an arrest. I see your point but I don't sympathise with either the protestors or the police. Its a dance, both parties are well rehearsed in the steps and the media plays the tune.

[maiforpeace]

I get that you advocate the use of violence and brutality to enforce the law Seth.

I have faith the American public doesn't though. Enough of these types of incidents will sway the opinion of the American public eventually. I also have faith the students will stick with the protests...after all, it's them who are going to be forever in debt paying their student loans, while simultaneously not being able to find jobs. You don't think their parents sympathize?

[Audley Strange]

I get that you advocate the use of violence and brutality to enforce the law Seth.

I have faith the American public doesn't though. Enough of these types of incidents will sway the opinion of the American public eventually. I also have faith the students will stick with the protests...after all, it's them who are going to be forever in debt paying their student loans, while simultaneously not being able to find jobs. You don't think their parents sympathize?

Haven't you had quite a lot violence and brutality in law enforcement for a long time though? Wouldn't you have thought things like the Matewan massacre, Kent State and even things like Waco and lots of pre-judicial executions, not to mention the current "we'll kill whomever so we like anywhere in the world" mentality swayed the American public?

Personally I think it has been so ingrained in your popular culture for so long that "shoot the bad guy" is more often than not seen as justice in and of itself.