Black Bloc Tactics Contaminating Occupy Oakland

[JimC]

Go mai!

Post (and photo!) of the week!

[Robert_S]

Awesome Mai!

[Warren Dew]

If you wre referring to a true marxist revolutionary movement, I'm sure you would be right, and not just in the US. What makes me think that the whole Soviet style mass move into marxism won't happen again is simply that enough people know enough history to realise it is a dead end.

They may not call it Marxism, but ultimately the motivations for such revolution are timeless: the "elite" have most of the money, but the "99%" have most of the people. Thus, the "99%" can overwhelm the elite, take their riches away, and distribute it amongst themselves.

They may not articulate it well, but ultimately the motivations of most of the Occupy movement are simple: the jealousy and greed of "they have money and I want it!"

[JimC]

If you wre referring to a true marxist revolutionary movement, I'm sure you would be right, and not just in the US. What makes me think that the whole Soviet style mass move into marxism won't happen again is simply that enough people know enough history to realise it is a dead end.

They may not call it Marxism, but ultimately the motivations for such revolution are timeless: the "elite" have most of the money, but the "99%" have most of the people. Thus, the "99%" can overwhelm the elite, take their riches away, and distribute it amongst themselves.

They may not articulate it well, but ultimately the motivations of most of the Occupy movement are simple: the jealousy and greed of "they have money and I want it!"

I think that is both facile and unfair to most who want reform in this area. What they want is an end to a self-perpetuating elite, one that has all the political and economic clout to stack the deck immensely in their favour. The majority would not be arguing against quite significant income differentials, or an abandonment of the need for personal incentive as a motivator. You can accept that, but at the same time argue that corporations and the monied class who control them have their snouts far deeper in the trough than is fair. And far more that is prudent, if they don't want sandinista's visions to one day become reality; pressure cookers without safety valves go bang...

[Warren Dew]

I think that is both facile and unfair to most who want reform in this area.

Most who want reform in this area are not part of the Occupy movement. Heck, I want reform in this area, and I'm certainly not part of the Occupy movement.

[JimC]

I think that is both facile and unfair to most who want reform in this area.

Most who want reform in this area are not part of the Occupy movement. Heck, I want reform in this area, and I'm certainly not part of the Occupy movement.

I suppose I am cherry-picking the aspects of the Occupy movement which seem both rational and feasible. It contains such a range of political opinions, it is hard not to...

I concede that a fair few of them may see my statement as pussy-footing neo-liberalism...

[Robert_S]

I think that is both facile and unfair to most who want reform in this area.

Most who want reform in this area are not part of the Occupy movement. Heck, I want reform in this area, and I'm certainly not part of the Occupy movement.

Yes you are, you're just in denial.

[JimC]

I think that is both facile and unfair to most who want reform in this area.

Most who want reform in this area are not part of the Occupy movement. Heck, I want reform in this area, and I'm certainly not part of the Occupy movement.

Yes you are, you're just in denial.

Quick, throw him a Lifebuoy! Not sure if Warren can swim, and those Nile crocodiles are a bit of a worry!

[Ayaan]

You think little old ladies who thought they should "check out" a riot in progress ought to get a pass? Please. Little old Marxist ladies and men can take the same medicine as everyone else who defies lawful police orders to disperse. The same applies to the fuckwit parents who bring their kids, in utero or not, to use as shields, hoping that their presence will prevent the police from running illegal protesters out of the park. THEY should be arrested for felony child neglect and endangerment.

The Occupy protesters had their say. Their right to free speech was carefully respected in quite literally every case. Indeed, it was tolerated far longer and with greater reluctance to enforce the law than most protests. But, there's a time, place and manner for lawful protest, and they have exceeded the budget and now it's time for them to move on because their protests are now unlawfully disrupting commerce and the peace and order of the community.

Just because most of America and the world are ignoring them does not mean that they have gained the right to break the law. If they want to stand in the park with signs and peacefully protest and petition their government, fine. But the problems with the camps are obvious, and have become a public health hazard and a safety issue, so they will have to go home each night and come back each morning to continue their protest. That's not an unreasonable regulation of the time, place and manner of their exercise of free speech.

And if they don't agree, well, the police have the authority to enforce the law by using tear gas, pepper spray and riot-batons.

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[Bella Fortuna]

[Clinton Huxley]

Mai, you win 3 internetz.

[Schneibster]

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Sweet.

[Schneibster]

ultimately the motivations of most of the Occupy movement are simple: the jealousy and greed of "they have money and I want it!"

Which is theoretical, as opposed to the demonstrable proven greed of the rich. That is, after all, how they got that way.

There are people who like to work, they in fact make up the majority, and when you deny it the lie is glaringly obvious, as is the view into your psychology.

[maiforpeace]

Most who want reform in this area are not part of the Occupy movement. Heck, I want reform in this area, and I'm certainly not part of the Occupy movement

Actually, this is one thing that both the Occupy Movement AND the Tea Party Movement want reform in. Too bad we want it to happen in totally different ways. We had a Teabagger join us at Occupy Santa Cruz's rally last night. He was invited to tell his story to the crowd, and it resonated with a lot of people.

Could you imagine if we could actually find a common ground and join forces?

[Robert_S]

Most who want reform in this area are not part of the Occupy movement. Heck, I want reform in this area, and I'm certainly not part of the Occupy movement

Actually, this is one thing that both the Occupy Movement AND the Tea Party Movement want reform in. Too bad we want it to happen in totally different ways. We had a Teabagger join us at Occupy Santa Cruz's rally last night. He was invited to tell his story to the crowd, and it resonated with a lot of people.

Could you imagine if we could actually find a common ground and join forces?

Marxists in the Tea Party?