Huge Explosion Tehran, TSHTF Bigtime Tonight?

[JimC]

If the Israelis were purely responding to incidents of Palestinian terrorism, such as rocket lanches from Gaza, then fair enough; an armed response is perfectly reasonable. However, it is the treatment of ordinary civilian arabs, nominally citizens of their country, which is the appalling thing. The settlement programs gradually eat away at their small-holdings, and they have no redress...

It is slow and remorseless ethnic cleansing, with religious overtones. No amount of pointing out the evil deeds of Palestinian terrorist groups can change that.

As long as they stay away from the negotiating table there's nothing to be done.

You miss my point, I think. I'm not talking about the negotiating table with Hamas, the Palestinian authority, or any other official group. I am talking about the actions of the Israeli authorities to the arab minority within Israel itself, and the fact that the settlement movement is slowly but surely achieving its fairly extremist aim - to push and push the settlement boundaries till the remaining Palestinians disappear...

[Schneibster]

If the Israelis were purely responding to incidents of Palestinian terrorism, such as rocket lanches from Gaza, then fair enough; an armed response is perfectly reasonable. However, it is the treatment of ordinary civilian arabs, nominally citizens of their country, which is the appalling thing. The settlement programs gradually eat away at their small-holdings, and they have no redress...

It is slow and remorseless ethnic cleansing, with religious overtones. No amount of pointing out the evil deeds of Palestinian terrorist groups can change that.

As long as they stay away from the negotiating table there's nothing to be done.

You miss my point, I think. I'm not talking about the negotiating table with Hamas, the Palestinian authority, or any other official group. I am talking about the actions of the Israeli authorities to the arab minority within Israel itself, and the fact that the settlement movement is slowly but surely achieving its fairly extremist aim - to push and push the settlement boundaries till the remaining Palestinians disappear...

Well, you sure missed mine. The government is letting them a) because it helps keep them securely in power by ensuring the right wingnut voting bloc and b) as a negotiation tactic hinting that if they don't show up at the table soon there's going to be nothing left to negotiate over.

[JimC]

If the Israelis were purely responding to incidents of Palestinian terrorism, such as rocket lanches from Gaza, then fair enough; an armed response is perfectly reasonable. However, it is the treatment of ordinary civilian arabs, nominally citizens of their country, which is the appalling thing. The settlement programs gradually eat away at their small-holdings, and they have no redress...

It is slow and remorseless ethnic cleansing, with religious overtones. No amount of pointing out the evil deeds of Palestinian terrorist groups can change that.

As long as they stay away from the negotiating table there's nothing to be done.

You miss my point, I think. I'm not talking about the negotiating table with Hamas, the Palestinian authority, or any other official group. I am talking about the actions of the Israeli authorities to the arab minority within Israel itself, and the fact that the settlement movement is slowly but surely achieving its fairly extremist aim - to push and push the settlement boundaries till the remaining Palestinians disappear...

Well, you sure missed mine. The government is letting them a) because it helps keep them securely in power by ensuring the right wingnut voting bloc and b) as a negotiation tactic hinting that if they don't show up at the table soon there's going to be nothing left to negotiate over.

I agree that a) is a major reason, certainly. If you really think b), then it underlines how appalling the Israeli government is. I have no qualms about them sending a missile into a car carrying Hamas members who are part of sending rocket attacks against unarmed civilians. But, in the end, Israel may simply run out of international friends if it continues to practice the equivalent of apartheid against non-terrorist arab citizens within its borders

[Schneibster]

It is appalling. But there's the problem: start shooting at people, eventually they're going to start shooting back and you don't get to tell them when to stop.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Iran has the right to defend itself. To single it out when Israel and half the countries in the world already have nukes is anti-Semitic. /Snark

So, you're in favor of nuclear proliferation. Lovely.

[mistermack]

So, you're in favor of nuclear proliferation. Lovely.

I'm in favour of fairness.
If one country of religious nuts can have nukes, then so can another.
I think that Israel is no safer than Iran. Quite the reverse, it's the country most likely to use nukes.

Ideally, Israel should be disarmed of nukes, and Iran should be prevented from getting them.
Barring that, there is no justification for preventing Iran from making them.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Barring that, there is no justification for preventing Iran from making them.

Except that you are allowing religious extremists to have nuclear weapons.

[mistermack]

Barring that, there is no justification for preventing Iran from making them.

Except that you are allowing religious extremists to have nuclear weapons.

Well, that's already been done. And it was the US that did it.
You can hardly justify allowing your own pet religious extremists to have nukes, but say it's wrong for anybody else.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Barring that, there is no justification for preventing Iran from making them.

Except that you are allowing religious extremists to have nuclear weapons.

Well, that's already been done. And it was the US that did it.
You can hardly justify allowing your own pet religious extremists to have nukes, but say it's wrong for anybody else.

"That's not right, it's not even wrong." You think we need more countries with nukes?

[MiM]

Back on topic more or less. Trace amounts of Iodine 131 have been detected drifting across Europe the past couple of weeks. The source hasn't yet been idenified but this material is used in nuclear weapons.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45262738/ns ... on-europe/

Search is on for source of mystery radiation in Europe

Trace amounts of the radioactive material iodine-131 have been detected across Europe over the past two weeks, according to nuclear officials there. The source of this radiation-spewing material is unknown.

Iodine-131 is a byproduct of the type of nuclear fission reactions that occur in reactors and nuclear weapons; it emits radiation that can cause cancer when absorbed in high enough doses. The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) said the levels of iodine-131 that have been detected in several locations across Europe are abnormally high, but not high enough to pose a public health risk, Reuters reported Friday.

Austria's Environment Ministry said the small levels of radioactive iodine it detected would expose the population to a radiation dose equal to just one-40,000th of the dose received in a trans-Atlantic flight.

Nonetheless, the IAEA is on the hunt for the source of this free-flying nuclear fission product, which the agency does not believe to be a remnant of the nuclear disaster in Fukushima, Japan, earlier this year. Iodine-131 decays quickly, with a half-life of just eight days.

(continued)

Iodine is not used in nuclear weapons it is produced by them, when they explode.This distinction is important as there is no I-131 to detect from a nuke until it has exploded.

I-131 is a fairly common release nuclide from NPP:s with problems, and it is produced in isotope production facilities and used in medical therapy in hospitals worldwide. Detection of I-131 from an underground nuclear test, without any other nuclides is possible, but very unlikely, so the current detections are much more indicative of either of the two other possible sources.

And as somebody pointed out there are a lot of seismographs listening for underground tests, as well as there are hydrophones in the seas and infrasound equipment listening to noises in the atmosphere. And then of course radionuclide stations too. One such network is run by this organisation http://www.ctbto.org.

BTW: I don't think anybody is crazy enough to perform a nuclear test 50km from their own capital.
And, yes. All I-131 from Fukushima has decayed a long time ago, so it cannot come from there.

[HomerJay]

Good stuff MiM

[JimC]

Good stuff MiM

Agreed!

We haz our very own Nuclear Man!

[Gawd]

Jewish sponsored terrorist group attacked Iran's right to exist and defend itself:

Western official: Israel is behind recent Iran explosion

Israel stands behind the recent explosion at an Iran missile base, a Western intelligence source told Time Magazine on Sunday.

"Don't believe the Iranians that it was an accident," the Western official told Time, insisting that widespread assumptions that Israel's Mossad was responsible for Saturday's blast, which killed 17 and wounded 15, were correct.

The official also said that more plans to sabotage Iran's nuclear program exist, telling Time, "There are more bullets in the magazine."

The massive explosion at the military arms depot near Tehran killed a Revolutionary Guard commander who was a key figure in Iran's missile program.

Gen. Hasan Moghaddam was killed together with 16 other Guard members Saturday at a military site outside Bidganeh village, 40 kilometers southwest of Tehran. The Guard said the accidental explosion occurred while military personnel were transporting munitions.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-d ... n-1.395512

[Gawd]

I agree that a) is a major reason, certainly. If you really think b), then it underlines how appalling the Israeli government is. I have no qualms about them sending a missile into a car carrying Hamas members who are part of sending rocket attacks against unarmed civilians. But, in the end, Israel may simply run out of international friends if it continues to practice the equivalent of apartheid against non-terrorist arab citizens within its borders

I also have no qualms about sending a missile into a car carrying Israeli colonialists/thieves.

And Hamas are the democratically elected freedom fighters of the Palestinians which the US and Israel tried to murder. Hamas deserves our support.

[Warren Dew]

Ideally, Israel should be disarmed of nukes, and Iran should be prevented from getting them.

Agreed.

Barring that, there is no justification for preventing Iran from making them.

I disagree. If you have two problems, fixing one of them, while not as good as fixing both of them, is usually better than fixing neither of them.