Remembrance
- Rum
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Remembrance
It's Remembrance Sunday here today and this year they seem to be making a big deal about it this year.
When I was younger and probably less sensitive I used to dismiss it as a way of glorifying war and conflict. Then I guess I tended to view it as a way that the power elite bigged up the suckers who were stupid enough to go out and fight for the powers that prevailed at the time.
Now, later in life, and I think in tune with the prevailing mood of most in this country, I see it as simply a remembrance (literally) of those who died, whoever they fought for over the last century, and the sadness and futility of it all .
What about you?
When I was younger and probably less sensitive I used to dismiss it as a way of glorifying war and conflict. Then I guess I tended to view it as a way that the power elite bigged up the suckers who were stupid enough to go out and fight for the powers that prevailed at the time.
Now, later in life, and I think in tune with the prevailing mood of most in this country, I see it as simply a remembrance (literally) of those who died, whoever they fought for over the last century, and the sadness and futility of it all .
What about you?
- klr
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Re: Remembrance
Being Irish, I'm a bit detached from this, although given the amount of British TV I watch (esp. News and CA) I'm guess I'm not that detached.
It does look to be becoming a bigger and bigger deal alright. As long as it's just about remembrance - and that's what the ceremony today seemed to be aimed at - then I don't have a problem with it.
Some of the blurb in the short prayer piece today was a bit odd, praising those who made the ultimate sacrifice for God and country without stopping to ask "why"? I'll be charitable and put it down to just being historical baggage. It was probably a lot worse way back when.
It's also good to see that everyone who might get in harm's way during a conflict is now being recognised, as are all the charities and other group who help the veterans afterwards.
It does look to be becoming a bigger and bigger deal alright. As long as it's just about remembrance - and that's what the ceremony today seemed to be aimed at - then I don't have a problem with it.
Some of the blurb in the short prayer piece today was a bit odd, praising those who made the ultimate sacrifice for God and country without stopping to ask "why"? I'll be charitable and put it down to just being historical baggage. It was probably a lot worse way back when.
It's also good to see that everyone who might get in harm's way during a conflict is now being recognised, as are all the charities and other group who help the veterans afterwards.
God has no place within these walls, just like facts have no place within organized religion. - Superintendent Chalmers
It's not up to us to choose which laws we want to obey. If it were, I'd kill everyone who looked at me cock-eyed! - Rex Banner
The Bluebird of Happiness long absent from his life, Ned is visited by the Chicken of Depression. - Gary Larson

It's not up to us to choose which laws we want to obey. If it were, I'd kill everyone who looked at me cock-eyed! - Rex Banner
The Bluebird of Happiness long absent from his life, Ned is visited by the Chicken of Depression. - Gary Larson



- klr
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Re: Remembrance
One other point: Official Ireland (south of the border) used to want nothing to do with anything Remembrance/Armistice Day-related, even though enormous numbers of Irish men served and died in both World Wars - especially the first. Thankfully that is now changing, and we have an officially ceremony every year which has the Irish president in attendance.
God has no place within these walls, just like facts have no place within organized religion. - Superintendent Chalmers
It's not up to us to choose which laws we want to obey. If it were, I'd kill everyone who looked at me cock-eyed! - Rex Banner
The Bluebird of Happiness long absent from his life, Ned is visited by the Chicken of Depression. - Gary Larson

It's not up to us to choose which laws we want to obey. If it were, I'd kill everyone who looked at me cock-eyed! - Rex Banner
The Bluebird of Happiness long absent from his life, Ned is visited by the Chicken of Depression. - Gary Larson



- Rum
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Re: Remembrance
Sounds a bit like the way my own attitude has changed. It isn't about the glory or the nationalism or the honour or whatever of war, but the sadness and the loss.
- Gawdzilla Sama
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Re: Remembrance
I remember the names and faces of friends long after I've forgotten the mission's purpose.
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Re: Remembrance
Although in another 10, 15 years tops, there will be no-one there to represent WW II, and I wonder if the tone will change somewhat? Of course there are already no survivors from WW I, but the two world wars tend to be grouped together in the public conciousness. Of course having no living survivors might make Remembrance even more important for that very reason.Rum wrote:Sounds a bit like the way my own attitude has changed. It isn't about the glory or the nationalism or the honour or whatever of war, but the sadness and the loss.
God has no place within these walls, just like facts have no place within organized religion. - Superintendent Chalmers
It's not up to us to choose which laws we want to obey. If it were, I'd kill everyone who looked at me cock-eyed! - Rex Banner
The Bluebird of Happiness long absent from his life, Ned is visited by the Chicken of Depression. - Gary Larson

It's not up to us to choose which laws we want to obey. If it were, I'd kill everyone who looked at me cock-eyed! - Rex Banner
The Bluebird of Happiness long absent from his life, Ned is visited by the Chicken of Depression. - Gary Larson



- Gawdzilla Sama
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Re: Remembrance
And in another austerity move, the Obama administration is going to close the Home for the Widows of the Unknown Soldiers.
Re: Remembrance
I Never saw the glory in this .Rum wrote:Sounds a bit like the way my own attitude has changed. It isn't about the glory or the nationalism or the honour or whatever of war, but the sadness and the loss.





Give me the wine , I don't need the bread
- Gawdzilla Sama
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Re: Remembrance
"The few the men, the greater the glory." I've never understood that.
- klr
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Re: Remembrance
Gawdzilla wrote:"The few the men, the greater the glory." I've never understood that.

God has no place within these walls, just like facts have no place within organized religion. - Superintendent Chalmers
It's not up to us to choose which laws we want to obey. If it were, I'd kill everyone who looked at me cock-eyed! - Rex Banner
The Bluebird of Happiness long absent from his life, Ned is visited by the Chicken of Depression. - Gary Larson

It's not up to us to choose which laws we want to obey. If it were, I'd kill everyone who looked at me cock-eyed! - Rex Banner
The Bluebird of Happiness long absent from his life, Ned is visited by the Chicken of Depression. - Gary Larson



- John_fi_Skye
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Re: Remembrance
I feel enormous pity for the families of those who've died in wars. However, I think there have been an amazing number of programmes about remembrance on UK TV this year - more, I think, than I've ever seen. As well as televised (not to mention in-the-flesh) services and ceremonies on the 11th itself (Friday) and on Remembrance Sunday, it also seems that all public events and entertainments (eg football matches) on the days around these days have had to feature minutes of silence - and there's been righteous indignation in the media whenever a match hasn't included a minute's silence. I think our media and indeed lots of our people are alarmingly becoming increasingly fond of monstrous outpourings of public grief, where the important thing seems to me to be not what's in your heart, but making sure everybody sees you doing it. I think that kind of hypocrisy does nobody any good, and I'd much rather see energy expended actually doing something - like ensuring we never enter daft wars - rather than a whole lot of extra public breast-beating.
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- Gawdzilla Sama
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Re: Remembrance
Yep, the pep talk before Agincourt. Trying to convince his troops to stay by telling them they can leave.klr wrote:Gawdzilla wrote:"The few the men, the greater the glory." I've never understood that.Henry V? Anyway, it's another of those memes that seems to be (thankfully) not in vogue anymore.
Re: Remembrance
Well said .John_fi_Skye wrote:I feel enormous pity for the families of those who've died in wars. However, I think there have been an amazing number of programmes about remembrance on UK TV this year - more, I think, than I've ever seen. As well as televised (not to mention in-the-flesh) services and ceremonies on the 11th itself (Friday) and on Remembrance Sunday, it also seems that all public events and entertainments (eg football matches) on the days around these days have had to feature minutes of silence - and there's been righteous indignation in the media whenever a match hasn't included a minute's silence. I think our media and indeed lots of our people are alarmingly becoming increasingly fond of monstrous outpourings of public grief, where the important thing seems to me to be not what's in your heart, but making sure everybody sees you doing it. I think that kind of hypocrisy does nobody any good, and I'd much rather see energy expended actually doing something - like ensuring we never enter daft wars - rather than a whole lot of extra public breast-beating.




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Re: Remembrance
That sums up my perception as well - it's all "voluntary", but anyone seen to be "opting out" is going to draw down a storm of criticism on themselves. Much as I dislike FIFA, I could sympathise with their initial stance that the poppy should not be worn because it could be construed as a political symbol.John_fi_Skye wrote:I feel enormous pity for the families of those who've died in wars. However, I think there have been an amazing number of programmes about remembrance on UK TV this year - more, I think, than I've ever seen. As well as televised (not to mention in-the-flesh) services and ceremonies on the 11th itself (Friday) and on Remembrance Sunday, it also seems that all public events and entertainments (eg football matches) on the days around these days have had to feature minutes of silence - and there's been righteous indignation in the media whenever a match hasn't included a minute's silence. I think our media and indeed lots of our people are alarmingly becoming increasingly fond of monstrous outpourings of public grief, where the important thing seems to me to be not what's in your heart, but making sure everybody sees you doing it. I think that kind of hypocrisy does nobody any good, and I'd much rather see energy expended actually doing something - like ensuring we never enter daft wars - rather than a whole lot of extra public breast-beating.
God has no place within these walls, just like facts have no place within organized religion. - Superintendent Chalmers
It's not up to us to choose which laws we want to obey. If it were, I'd kill everyone who looked at me cock-eyed! - Rex Banner
The Bluebird of Happiness long absent from his life, Ned is visited by the Chicken of Depression. - Gary Larson

It's not up to us to choose which laws we want to obey. If it were, I'd kill everyone who looked at me cock-eyed! - Rex Banner
The Bluebird of Happiness long absent from his life, Ned is visited by the Chicken of Depression. - Gary Larson



- John_fi_Skye
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Re: Remembrance
Yes, but it made the king-to-be very cross, and so they compromised.klr wrote:That sums up my perception as well - it's all "voluntary", but anyone seen to be "opting out" is going to draw down a storm of criticism on themselves. Much as I dislike FIFA, I could sympathise with their initial stance that the poppy should not be worn because it could be construed as a political symbol.John_fi_Skye wrote:I feel enormous pity for the families of those who've died in wars. However, I think there have been an amazing number of programmes about remembrance on UK TV this year - more, I think, than I've ever seen. As well as televised (not to mention in-the-flesh) services and ceremonies on the 11th itself (Friday) and on Remembrance Sunday, it also seems that all public events and entertainments (eg football matches) on the days around these days have had to feature minutes of silence - and there's been righteous indignation in the media whenever a match hasn't included a minute's silence. I think our media and indeed lots of our people are alarmingly becoming increasingly fond of monstrous outpourings of public grief, where the important thing seems to me to be not what's in your heart, but making sure everybody sees you doing it. I think that kind of hypocrisy does nobody any good, and I'd much rather see energy expended actually doing something - like ensuring we never enter daft wars - rather than a whole lot of extra public breast-beating.
Pray, do not mock me: I am a very foolish fond old man; And, to deal plainly, I fear I am not in my perfect mind.
Blah blah blah blah blah!
Memo to self: no Lir chocolates.
Life is glorious.
Blah blah blah blah blah!
Memo to self: no Lir chocolates.
Life is glorious.
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