Irish Republic Closes Vatican Embassy

[Gawdzilla Sama]

...the Papal States maybe the oldest actual political entity on the European scene, and even though most of their possessions have been stripped from them, the implications of abolishing their sovereign state status entirely, especially on the part of 'enlightened' Western democracies would be incalculable...

Is simply not recognising a state the same as abolishing it's sovereign status?

Nope. The only way to do that is to take it over. If Italy marched into Vatican City and declared they were in charge there now, that would do it.

[Horwood Beer-Master]

...the Papal States maybe the oldest actual political entity on the European scene, and even though most of their possessions have been stripped from them, the implications of abolishing their sovereign state status entirely, especially on the part of 'enlightened' Western democracies would be incalculable...

Is simply not recognising a state the same as abolishing it's sovereign status?

Nope. The only way to do that is to take it over. If Italy marched into Vatican City and declared they were in charge there now, that would do it.

So there shouldn't be any problem if everyone just stopped talking to the Vatican and pretended they didn't exist

[charlou]

So there shouldn't be any problem if everyone just stopped talking to the Vatican and pretended they didn't exist

If only I could live to see the day when it was comprehensively treated with the level of respect and consideration it really deserves.

[Svartalf]

Dangerous..
a) the Papal States maybe the oldest actual political entity on the European scene, and even though most of their possessions have been stripped from them, the implications of abolishing their sovereign state status entirely, especially on the part of 'enlightened' Western democracies would be incalculable, and would probably morally vindicate all sorts of evil, since we find that kind of things acceptable.

The Papal states are the ones morally vindicating all sorts of evil.

two wrongs for a right and all that

[Geoff]

Dangerous..
a) the Papal States maybe the oldest actual political entity on the European scene, and even though most of their possessions have been stripped from them, the implications of abolishing their sovereign state status entirely, especially on the part of 'enlightened' Western democracies would be incalculable, and would probably morally vindicate all sorts of evil, since we find that kind of things acceptable.

The Papal states are the ones morally vindicating all sorts of evil.

two wrongs for a right and all that

I don't see overthrowing an evil regime as being a "wrong".

[Svartalf]

Oh, yeah, I forgot, you brits were all for getting saddam down back in 2003, but I don't know that you ever did a thing to explain bushie maybe something ought to be done about Assad, Kim Jong Il, the Chinese clique, the ayatollahs, and 90% of African heads of state.

[Geoff]

Oh, yeah, I forgot, you brits were all for getting saddam down back in 2003, but I don't know that you ever did a thing to explain bushie maybe something ought to be done about Assad, Kim Jong Il, the Chinese clique, the ayatollahs, and 90% of African heads of state.

True, but that's more a question of whose responsibility it is, in terms of who is being affected. None of those you mention were directly hurting/threatening anyone outside of their own territory. Bear in mind the OP and it's connection with the Cloyne report (however much they try to deny that connection).

There's a big difference between protecting one's own people and being the "world's policeman". If the Vatican were truly considered a nation state, then the crimes that they've committed, over a long period of time, hushed up, and subsequently shown little if any remorse for, against British citizens (not to mention those in other countries) could fairly be considered an act of war.

[Horwood Beer-Master]

Oh, yeah, I forgot, you brits were all for getting saddam down back in 2003, but I don't know that you ever did a thing to explain bushie maybe something ought to be done about Assad, Kim Jong Il, the Chinese clique, the ayatollahs, and 90% of African heads of state.

We prefer to leave interfering in African internal affairs to the French - it's more your kinda thing.

[Svartalf]

Tell that to the Mad Mullah

[Horwood Beer-Master]

Tell that to the Mad Mullah

Pffft!, that was ages ago - back when we still had an Empire in Africa. The problem with the French is that no-one seems to have told you you no longer have an Empire in Africa.

[Svartalf]

if they can't govern themselves, somebody has to do it for them.

[Horwood Beer-Master]

if they can't govern themselves, somebody has to do it for them.

Can you sort out those Eyeties while you're at it then?

[Cormac]

Dangerous..
a) the Papal States maybe the oldest actual political entity on the European scene, and even though most of their possessions have been stripped from them, the implications of abolishing their sovereign state status entirely, especially on the part of 'enlightened' Western democracies would be incalculable, and would probably morally vindicate all sorts of evil, since we find that kind of things acceptable.
b) Whether you like it or not, the Vatican is a major diplomatic hub, equal to Paris, London, DC, NYNY or Moscow... cut yourself from it at your own peril.

It is probably the single biggest intelligence operation on the planet. A representative in nearly every parish on the planet. This an their claim to be in charge of hundreds of millions gives them an unwarranted position in the diplomatic world.

[Seth]

All countries should close their "embassies" to the Vatican; it should not be recognised as a "nation" at all. Typically, in Oz, the position is given to a retiring politician who happens to be a Catholic, and has brown-nosed the PM sufficiently; a few years of good pay, little work, and living in a very central European location. Parasites!

Yeah, well, those billion Catholics on the planet are a potent economic and political force, so this "money-saving" decision may come back to bite them in the ass.

[Seth]

Dangerous..
a) the Papal States maybe the oldest actual political entity on the European scene, and even though most of their possessions have been stripped from them, the implications of abolishing their sovereign state status entirely, especially on the part of 'enlightened' Western democracies would be incalculable, and would probably morally vindicate all sorts of evil, since we find that kind of things acceptable.
b) Whether you like it or not, the Vatican is a major diplomatic hub, equal to Paris, London, DC, NYNY or Moscow... cut yourself from it at your own peril.

It is probably the single biggest intelligence operation on the planet. A representative in nearly every parish on the planet. This an their claim to be in charge of hundreds of millions gives them an unwarranted position in the diplomatic world.

Oh, I don't know, the fact that they represent a BILLION Catholics insofar as the interplay between government and religion is a force to be reckoned with and the Vatican's status as a diplomatic powerhouse is hardly "unwarranted."

You might not LIKE the fact that there are a billion Catholics on the planet, or that they can form significant voting blocs around political issues that affect their spiritual lives, but that's just sticking your diplomatic head up your ass, and most nations are not quite that stupid.