Population Bomb

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Well, gawd hasn't been proven impossible either, but you're an atheist.

Just sayin'.

That's what I love about speculative technologies.

[PsychoSerenity]

The limit isn't the Earth, it's the incoming energy from the Sun.

And the solar energy hitting this planet is something like a thousand times our current energy usage. Now obviously we can't make use of all of that - but then, the solar energy hitting earth is also a really tiny amount compared to the total solar output. If we can get some sort of lens/mirror system in space, we could presumably harvest much more.

Ultimately when talking about the carrying capacity of the earth, I think the real problem we face is the way we manage resources. Currently, despite all the technology we have, we are failing to properly provide for something like a fifth of the population of the planet - and that's mainly down to stupid politics, abstract economics and anti-scientific religion getting in the way.

Of course we also have to switch to sustainable energy ASAP or there'll be a right shit-fuck over the next few decades.

[Schneibster]

Well, gawd hasn't been proven impossible either, but you're an atheist.

Just sayin'.

That's what I love about speculative technologies.

There's speculative, then there's magic.

Now, mind you, they're finding out how to read brain squiggles from outside the skull, and talking about controlling prosthetics with it. And if you can do that, you can read thoughts. But being able to insert a thought, that's another thing entirely. Much, much more complex- and likely unique for each brain, since they grow, though there is apparently quite a bit of stereotyped structure. How much is something we're still figuring out, I guess.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Well, gawd hasn't been proven impossible either, but you're an atheist.

Just sayin'.

That's what I love about speculative technologies.

There's speculative, then there's magic.

Now, mind you, they're finding out how to read brain squiggles from outside the skull, and talking about controlling prosthetics with it. And if you can do that, you can read thoughts. But being able to insert a thought, that's another thing entirely. Much, much more complex- and likely unique for each brain, since they grow, though there is apparently quite a bit of stereotyped structure. How much is something we're still figuring out, I guess.

You just refuted your own argument. I'll let you one fight it out from there.

[Schneibster]

The limit isn't the Earth, it's the incoming energy from the Sun.

And the solar energy hitting this planet is something like a thousand times our current energy usage. Now obviously we can't make use of all of that - but then, the solar energy hitting earth is also a really tiny amount compared to the total solar output. If we can get some sort of lens/mirror system in space, we could presumably harvest much more.

One of the answers to the Fermi Paradox is "They're all inside Dyson spheres, so there's no output to detect."

Ultimately when talking about the carrying capacity of the earth, I think the real problem we face is the way we manage resources. Currently, despite all the technology we have, we are failing to properly provide for something like a fifth of the population of the planet - and that's mainly down to stupid politics, abstract economics and anti-scientific religion getting in the way.

I wouldn't argue a moment with that.

Of course we also have to switch to sustainable energy ASAP or there'll be a right shit-fuck over the next few decades.

No kidding. Last time all that carbon was in the atmosphere, at the end of the Cambrian, it was not a real comfortable climate for mammals. Last time it was anywhere near as high as it is now was the PETM, which predated the existence of humans but apparently selected for smaller hominids than us, judging by the sizes of Australopithecenes extant at the time.

[Schneibster]

Well, gawd hasn't been proven impossible either, but you're an atheist.

Just sayin'.

That's what I love about speculative technologies.

There's speculative, then there's magic.

Now, mind you, they're finding out how to read brain squiggles from outside the skull, and talking about controlling prosthetics with it. And if you can do that, you can read thoughts. But being able to insert a thought, that's another thing entirely. Much, much more complex- and likely unique for each brain, since they grow, though there is apparently quite a bit of stereotyped structure. How much is something we're still figuring out, I guess.

You just refuted your own argument. I'll let you one fight it out from there.

No I didn't; you're forgetting moving the data from here to there. You're assuming "telepathic" communication would be instantaneous, and I'm talking about electromagnetics, which are by definition limited to lightspeed.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The limit isn't the Earth, it's the incoming energy from the Sun.

And the solar energy hitting this planet is something like a thousand times our current energy usage. Now obviously we can't make use of all of that - but then, the solar energy hitting earth is also a really tiny amount compared to the total solar output. If we can get some sort of lens/mirror system in space, we could presumably harvest much more.

One of the answers to the Fermi Paradox is "They're all inside Dyson spheres, so there's no output to detect."

Another would be "could we have detected satellite transmissions 200 years ago?" The "window" for use of radio is, I think, rather small on a cosmic time scale.

[Tyrannical]

The projection is 9 Billion by 2050. We'll start eating soybeans after that. Sorry Zilla, only tofu bacon. They have leveling at 11 billion, but I bet it will top at 15 billion. Before the EPIDEMIC.

The thing is, the less developed countries are almost totally reliant on the developed nations for food and medicine. Normally famine and disease would keep their numbers in check, and as their populations rise and the developed nations are no longer able to provide for them their populations will crash.

[Jason]

The projection is 9 Billion by 2050. We'll start eating soybeans after that. Sorry Zilla, only tofu bacon. They have leveling at 11 billion, but I bet it will top at 15 billion. Before the EPIDEMIC.

The thing is, the less developed countries are almost totally reliant on the developed nations for food and medicine. Normally famine and disease would keep their numbers in check, and as their populations rise and the developed nations are no longer able to provide for them their populations will crash.

When all the world is overcharged with inhabitants, then the last remedy of all is war, which provideth for every man, by victory or death.

Don't worry, it's self-regulating.

[MrJonno]

Really doesnt make any real difference ro energy use to the world if we have 3 billion people in the developing world of 10 billion.
What does make a difference is whether we have 1 billion in the developed world of 2 billion, ie China not growing in population size but having a GDP per capita of the US or Europe

[Schneibster]

The limit isn't the Earth, it's the incoming energy from the Sun.

And the solar energy hitting this planet is something like a thousand times our current energy usage. Now obviously we can't make use of all of that - but then, the solar energy hitting earth is also a really tiny amount compared to the total solar output. If we can get some sort of lens/mirror system in space, we could presumably harvest much more.

One of the answers to the Fermi Paradox is "They're all inside Dyson spheres, so there's no output to detect."

Another would be "could we have detected satellite transmissions 200 years ago?" The "window" for use of radio is, I think, rather small on a cosmic time scale.

But anyone who knows how to use it would know the speed of light.

[Schneibster]

The projection is 9 Billion by 2050. We'll start eating soybeans after that. Sorry Zilla, only tofu bacon. They have leveling at 11 billion, but I bet it will top at 15 billion. Before the EPIDEMIC.

The thing is, the less developed countries are almost totally reliant on the developed nations for food and medicine. Normally famine and disease would keep their numbers in check, and as their populations rise and the developed nations are no longer able to provide for them their populations will crash.

What's scary is that more than half of them live in countries that have nuclear weapons.

[mistermack]

It's perfectly clear that we have far too many humans already on the planet.
The only thing that keeps us from chaos is that most of them are too poor to do a lot of damage.

That's changing in India and China, and many other countries with big populations. So the damage will continue to grow, even if the population didn't. It's already showing up now, with the amazing increase in the price of some foods, and fuel. The future is pretty crap, unless the populations start to FALL.

I would put a complete ban on immigration from the countries with exploding populations.
If they have to deal with the consequences of huge growth, maybe they will deal with the causes.

And as far as aid goes, it would have to be aid for family planning, long before any other kind.

It's not a question of how many HUMANS the planet can support. It's for wildlife too.
We won't get any thanks from our descendants for producing billions of humans, if most other species are made extinct within a 200 year period.

[Jason]

I say we move forward and colonize the moon. China is already working on a plan.

[Tyrannical]

I say we move forward and colonize the moon. China is already working on a plan.

Ugandan president Yoweri Museveni has said Africans must go to the moon in order to see what developed nations are doing up there.

“The Americans have gone to the moon. And the Russians. The Chinese and Indians will go there soon. Africans are the only ones who are stuck here,” Museveni said, addressing a meeting of the Uganda Law Society in Entebbe.

“We must also go there and say: ‘What are you people doing up here?’.”

http://www.therightperspective.org/2009 ... -the-moon/