Population Bomb

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Re: Population Bomb

Post by Schneibster » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:26 am

Horwood Beer-Master wrote:
Schneibster wrote:...Nanotechnology is really going to change everything...
I have doubts. Particularly regarding the gap between what technically can be achived, and what practically will be. Also nanotechnology will not increase the total (limited) mass of our planet - so there's still ultimately a limit to be reached
It's more a matter of how long it will take. Keep in mind the magic box that gets cold inside, from the point of view of an Amazonian tribesman, or for that matter cargo cults. The products and effects of a sufficiently advanced technology are indistinguishable from magic. And we went from vacuum tubes to microprocessors in thirty years. And from floppy canvas wings to the Moon in sixty. Prepare to be future shocked.

As far as the limits of the mass of the Earth, or even just the parts that are fairly easily accessible to us...

let's try it this way: If the Earth were a thirty meter sphere, the thickness of everything from the bottom of the Marianas trench's Challenger Depth to the top of Everest is less than the thickness of a coat of paint on the outside of that sphere; an order of magnitude less, actually. That's one hell of a lot of space, man, and the Earth is like ten or more orders of magnitude more, if you count the interior. Fifty or a hundred billion might easily survive here, if that were the only limit. The limit isn't the Earth, it's the incoming energy from the Sun.
Horwood Beer-Master wrote:
Schneibster wrote:...Have you ever heard of Fermi's Paradox?

It can be quite succinctly stated as, "where the fuck is everybody?"

One of the answers is, "Intelligence is self-limiting; it discovers [nuclear weapons, nanotech grey goop, some other destructive technology we ain't thought up yet, encounters Malthusian limits, etc.] and kills itself off." ...
My favoured answer is that while life may occur frequently, complex life is much less common, intelligent life less common still, and technological life rarer still - and of that technological life there no telling how much of it has the remotest interest in reaching out into the cosmos to discover other technological life.

It's a big ol' universe and we ain't scratched it's surface.
Radio is pretty easy. It's pretty obvious, and the places where things are quiet, where you'd try to communicate, are pretty obvious too.

Diddly squat, man. That says something. Either they're not talkin', in which case, oh shit how come the forest got all quiet all of a sudden, or else they're usin' somethin' else, and we know enough to know there ain't nothin' else obvious, or they're plain flat not there.
Horwood Beer-Master wrote:Of course, just because intelligent life generally may not self limiting - doesn't mean we won't prove to be. It could be that we are just a particularly crappy fucked-up form of (so called) "intelligent" life.
:biggrin:
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Re: Population Bomb

Post by Horwood Beer-Master » Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:12 am

Schneibster wrote:...Diddly squat, man. That says something. Either they're not talkin', in which case, oh shit how come the forest got all quiet all of a sudden, or else they're usin' somethin' else, and we know enough to know there ain't nothin' else obvious, or they're plain flat not there...
Or else the nearest "them" are too far away to be heard - which is what I was getting at.
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Re: Population Bomb

Post by Schneibster » Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:43 am

Horwood Beer-Master wrote:
Schneibster wrote:...Diddly squat, man. That says something. Either they're not talkin', in which case, oh shit how come the forest got all quiet all of a sudden, or else they're usin' somethin' else, and we know enough to know there ain't nothin' else obvious, or they're plain flat not there...
Or else the nearest "them" are too far away to be heard - which is what I was getting at.
One civilization in the Milky Way covers it with von Neumann probes in a million years.

Just sayin'.
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Re: Population Bomb

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:45 am

Schneibster wrote:
Horwood Beer-Master wrote:
Schneibster wrote:...Diddly squat, man. That says something. Either they're not talkin', in which case, oh shit how come the forest got all quiet all of a sudden, or else they're usin' somethin' else, and we know enough to know there ain't nothin' else obvious, or they're plain flat not there...
Or else the nearest "them" are too far away to be heard - which is what I was getting at.
One civilization in the Milky Way covers it with von Neumann probes in a million years.

Just sayin'.
It takes us, what, ~250,000 years to go all the way around the Milky Way? Seems like probes could do better than that if they were pushed to .5 c or something. Or am I wrong.
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Re: Population Bomb

Post by laklak » Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:47 am

Zombie Gawdzilla wrote:Humans are crunchy. :read:
Depends on the recipe.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: Population Bomb

Post by Horwood Beer-Master » Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:49 am

Schneibster wrote:
Horwood Beer-Master wrote:
Schneibster wrote:...Diddly squat, man. That says something. Either they're not talkin', in which case, oh shit how come the forest got all quiet all of a sudden, or else they're usin' somethin' else, and we know enough to know there ain't nothin' else obvious, or they're plain flat not there...
Or else the nearest "them" are too far away to be heard - which is what I was getting at.
One civilization in the Milky Way covers it with von Neumann probes in a million years.

Just sayin'.
Rather depends on the particular civilisation's sense of priorities.
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Re: Population Bomb

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:50 am

laklak wrote:
Zombie Gawdzilla wrote:Humans are crunchy. :read:
Depends on the recipe.
Sushi-style for me. Just a habit, I think.
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Re: Population Bomb

Post by Rum » Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:02 pm

I'll probably be outa here some time in the next 20 or 25 years. I'm sort of relieved when thinking about what the future might hold for the planet. Sad to say.

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Re: Population Bomb

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:03 pm

Zombie Rum wrote:I'll probably be outa here some time in the next 20 or 25 years. I'm sort of relieved when thinking about what the future might hold for the planet. Sad to say.
I'm at the stage of life where every day is considered "one extra." I'm good with that. The planet will abide, life will find a way, and maybe the dominant lifeform will be smarted the next time.
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Re: Population Bomb

Post by Schneibster » Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:15 pm

Horwood Beer-Master wrote:
Schneibster wrote:
Horwood Beer-Master wrote:
Schneibster wrote:...Diddly squat, man. That says something. Either they're not talkin', in which case, oh shit how come the forest got all quiet all of a sudden, or else they're usin' somethin' else, and we know enough to know there ain't nothin' else obvious, or they're plain flat not there...
Or else the nearest "them" are too far away to be heard - which is what I was getting at.
One civilization in the Milky Way covers it with von Neumann probes in a million years.

Just sayin'.
Rather depends on the particular civilisation's sense of priorities.
Over a million years? Nawww. It's the easiest, best way to find out what's up in the neighborhood, assuming FTL is impossible (and physics says it is, pretty much. If you're gonna go around denying major physics theories, relativity is not the one to start with).
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Re: Population Bomb

Post by Schneibster » Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:17 pm

Zombie Gawdzilla wrote:
Schneibster wrote:
Horwood Beer-Master wrote:
Schneibster wrote:...Diddly squat, man. That says something. Either they're not talkin', in which case, oh shit how come the forest got all quiet all of a sudden, or else they're usin' somethin' else, and we know enough to know there ain't nothin' else obvious, or they're plain flat not there...
Or else the nearest "them" are too far away to be heard - which is what I was getting at.
One civilization in the Milky Way covers it with von Neumann probes in a million years.

Just sayin'.
It takes us, what, ~250,000 years to go all the way around the Milky Way? Seems like probes could do better than that if they were pushed to .5 c or something. Or am I wrong.
It's a hundred thousand light years across, and that takes a minimum of a hundred thousand years- more like two hundred thousand at your 0.5c. Remember that they have to report back to be useful.
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Re: Population Bomb

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:20 pm

Schneibster wrote:
It's a hundred thousand light years across, and that takes a minimum of a hundred thousand years- more like two hundred thousand at your 0.5c. Remember that they have to report back to be useful.[/quote]
Easily fixed. Just put a telepath on probe. Wake them up when something interesting happens. You could get by with a few months food that way.
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Re: Population Bomb

Post by Schneibster » Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:31 pm

Well, if we're gonna use magic, howzabout we just get a crystal ball?

:toetap:
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Re: Population Bomb

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:35 pm

Schneibster wrote:Well, if we're gonna use magic, howzabout we just get a crystal ball?

:toetap:
Sorry, but telepathy hasn't been proven impossible, so I still have hope. (Ever watch TV and wonder what the folks in 18th Century Salem would have done if they found you doing that?)
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Re: Population Bomb

Post by Schneibster » Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:43 pm

Well, gawd hasn't been proven impossible either, but you're an atheist.

Just sayin'.
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