Social Security

Seth
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Re: Social Security

Post by Seth » Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:57 pm

laklak wrote: For most people, though, it's a bad investment. Putting 15% of your income away every month in a savings account would serve you better.
No shit. On top of earning compound interest over a lifetime (which really adds up) and having your money where the government can't get it's sticky fingers on it, your money is being invested in the economy through your savings bank. Just make sure it's a stable investment plan.

Someone else might know, but I'm betting that the overall average payout prior to death vs. pay-in over a lifetime of work on SS is well under 50 percent and probably around 30 percent. But that's just a guess. I'm sure someone who cares can do the research and come up with the actual figure. Biggest fucking ripoff in US history, that.
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Warren Dew
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Re: Social Security

Post by Warren Dew » Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:09 am

The current U.S. life expectancy is 78. The current social security retirement age is 65. The average social security payment is about $1177:

http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/answers ... red-worker

That means the total payout, very roughly, is $182,000.

The average U.S. income is currently $43,000 per year. The worker pays 5.3% in social security old age contributions, and his employer pays 5.3%, for a total of 10.6%. Assuming a working life of 40 years, that comes to a total contribution, roughly, of $186,000. So based on current rates and current dollars, you get out roughly what you paid in. It's equivalent to a retirement account that pays interest at the same rate as inflation.

However, that's just a snapshot. Current retirees actually paid in somewhat less, since social security taxes have been going up over the years, so they are getting out more than they paid in. Meanwhile, life expectancy is going up, so current workers are scheduled to get out more than they put in too. Plus, spouses who survive earners also get benefits even if they don't work, so single earner married couples do quite well.

Of course, that all puts social security in the red over the long term, which is why the retirement age may need to be increased, perhaps for people who are currently under 40. There is already an increase scheduled - to 67 - for people who are under 52 or so.

Overall, social security doesn't work terribly as an enforced retirement system, though making the retirement accounts individual and allowing people to track them would be better. The same could probably be said for social security disability insurance.

What really works poorly is medicare, where people get out five times as much as they put in, driven largely by a minority who get huge amounts of medical payments. Medicare is the thing that is truly broken and needs to be fixed.

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Cormac
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Re: Social Security

Post by Cormac » Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:30 am

Seth wrote:
laklak wrote: For most people, though, it's a bad investment. Putting 15% of your income away every month in a savings account would serve you better.
No shit. On top of earning compound interest over a lifetime (which really adds up) and having your money where the government can't get it's sticky fingers on it, your money is being invested in the economy through your savings bank. Just make sure it's a stable investment plan.

Someone else might know, but I'm betting that the overall average payout prior to death vs. pay-in over a lifetime of work on SS is well under 50 percent and probably around 30 percent. But that's just a guess. I'm sure someone who cares can do the research and come up with the actual figure. Biggest fucking ripoff in US history, that.
Unfortunately, money put into a Bank is considered a loan to the Bank, and the depositor is an unsecured creditor. One step above shareholders. Not a nice place to be on the bank's insolvency. Also, inflation also compounds, so you can end up losing substantial value unless you're a savvy investor.
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MattShizzle
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Re: Social Security

Post by MattShizzle » Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:32 am

I'm on Social Security and glad it's government run rather than done by the vagaries of the "free" (but certainly not fair) market. Nobody but piece of shit scum who cheat and/or exploit others ever benefits from a free, rather than fair, market.

Seth
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Re: Social Security

Post by Seth » Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:55 am

Cormac wrote:
Seth wrote:
laklak wrote: For most people, though, it's a bad investment. Putting 15% of your income away every month in a savings account would serve you better.
No shit. On top of earning compound interest over a lifetime (which really adds up) and having your money where the government can't get it's sticky fingers on it, your money is being invested in the economy through your savings bank. Just make sure it's a stable investment plan.

Someone else might know, but I'm betting that the overall average payout prior to death vs. pay-in over a lifetime of work on SS is well under 50 percent and probably around 30 percent. But that's just a guess. I'm sure someone who cares can do the research and come up with the actual figure. Biggest fucking ripoff in US history, that.
Unfortunately, money put into a Bank is considered a loan to the Bank, and the depositor is an unsecured creditor. One step above shareholders.
Depends on the bank and the deposit. And that's what the FDIC and banking regulators are for.
Not a nice place to be on the bank's insolvency. Also, inflation also compounds, so you can end up losing substantial value unless you're a savvy investor.
True enough. Earning interest on an investment inherently involves risk. It's the risk that you take that makes the interest you receive justifiable. Of course, you can always stuff cash into your mattress as well, or put it in a safe deposit box or safe. You lose the benefit of compound interest, but your retirement fund is more secure that way.

TANSTAFFL.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

Seth
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Re: Social Security

Post by Seth » Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:04 am

MattShizzle wrote:I'm on Social Security and glad it's government run rather than done by the vagaries of the "free" (but certainly not fair) market. Nobody but piece of shit scum who cheat and/or exploit others ever benefits from a free, rather than fair, market.
You deliberately mistake a "free market" as meaning a "totally unregulated market." Free markets are markets that operate within a framework of rules and laws that ensure fair and honest commerce but which are not being deliberately manipulated and controlled by the government so as to select winners and losers in the economic competition in order to achieve social engineering goals.

It is mendacious irrationality to try to argue that the theory of capitalistic free markets means regulatory vacuum and economic anarchy. It doesn't, despite the common Big Lie told by socialists to the contrary.

Neither capitalists nor Libertarians argue for totally unrestrained and unregulated markets, they merely argue for government sticking to it's proper and authorized police power role of ensuring and enforcing fair and honest trade rather than it's progressive/socialist role as central planner and chooser of economic winners and losers in the markets.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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