Why Johnny can't code

[Hermit]

I came from C to C++ and was like.. "Error 403

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If this happens repeatedly, please report to the Captain.

[Rob]

I have my first C++ lecture this Tuesday at 9:00AM. I can see that timeslot not helping.

Bah! my first class is at 7AM!

[MrJonno]

The world doesnt need millions of programmers, it does however need millions of people who can use Word, Excel, Outlook (not Open Office) and can type. Strangely enough thats what schools on a good day concentrate on.

If someone wants to specialise in programming then thats great but its a specialisation even in an IT department and is not something schools should be teaching as part of any core education.

Moaning kids can't program is a bit like moaning they don't know basic farming techniques there simply is no need

[leo-rcc]

I compare using a computer to driving a car. You can drive many thousands of miles and not have a clue about the internal workings. Then you can call the professionals if there is a problem. Or if you at least have a minimal understanding of the workings of an engine, you could end up more productive by fixing minor problems yourself or at least diagnose the problem.

The danger is in people who think they know a lot about cars and start messing with them. That's when accidents happen.

[klr]

The world doesnt need millions of programmers, it does however need millions of people who can use Word, Excel, Outlook (not Open Office) and can type. Strangely enough thats what schools on a good day concentrate on.

If someone wants to specialise in programming then thats great but its a specialisation even in an IT department and is not something schools should be teaching as part of any core education.

Moaning kids can't program is a bit like moaning they don't know basic farming techniques there simply is no need

I don't know if there are "enough" programmers in the world, but there are certainly shortages in some countries - e.g., here in Ireland. It's no coincidence that our primary/secondary education system makes no attempt worth speaking of to identify "potential" programmers, or to get them interested. We need far more programmers than we do for some "traditional" occupations that get a lot of attention in the education system, directly or indirectly.

Yes, everyone should be adept at using computers - more's the pity that there isn't even enough emphasis on that at times.

I compare using a computer to driving a car. You can drive many thousands of miles and not have a clue about the internal workings. Then you can call the professionals if there is a problem. Or if you at least have a minimal understanding of the workings of an engine, you could end up more productive by fixing minor problems yourself or at least diagnose the problem.

The danger is in people who think they know a lot about cars and start messing with them. That's when accidents happen.

It's a very good analogy. In the early days of personal computing, a very high proportion of users were technically very competent, and enthusiasts. Just like the early days of the car. Now, you don't need to know how a car works, and they are massively more complex "under the hood" anyway. The same for computers. And yes "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" certainly applies to computing as well, especially when it comes to management decisions on IT.

But still ... all that software doesn't write itself. And it would at least help if more people had some appreciation for just how complicated software development is.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" - (Arthur C.) Clarke's Third Law

[Clinton Huxley]

All that should be taught at school is blind obedience, an appreciation of Ancient Greece, functional Latin and the ability to plunge a bayonet into the Queen's enemies. All else is piffle. "Programming" indeed! There were no programmers at Malplaquet!

[klr]

All that should be taught at school is blind obedience, an appreciation of Ancient Greece, functional Latin and the ability to plunge a bayonet into the Queen's enemies. All else is piffle. "Programming" indeed! There were no programmers at Malplaquet!

And if there were no programmers, you wouldn't be sitting in front a PC now, communicating thus with the great unwashed.

[Clinton Huxley]

All that should be taught at school is blind obedience, an appreciation of Ancient Greece, functional Latin and the ability to plunge a bayonet into the Queen's enemies. All else is piffle. "Programming" indeed! There were no programmers at Malplaquet!

And if there were no programmers, you wouldn't be sitting in front a PC now, communicating thus with the great unwashed.

The fact that I am able to type unreconstructed nonsense into this Indifference Engine is proof that there are too many programmers.

[Sean Hayden]

Learning BASIC was great fun. I still remember the first time I encountered it in some scholastic magazine and it took a bazillion lines of code to do almost nothing. Today there are probably dozens of BASIC languages to choose from. I don't really have any opinion on a best first language, and I've seen responses to that question as varied as BASIC - C - Assembly -lol- the last one even coming from a computer scientist because "it will teach the system" yeah because abstraction doesn't exist, and what's wrong with a bit of fun first?

[klr]

Learning BASIC was great fun. I still remember the first time I encountered it in some scholastic magazine and it took a bazillion lines of code to do almost nothing. Today there are probably dozens of BASIC languages to choose from. I don't really have any opinion on a best first language, and I've seen responses to that question as varied as BASIC - C - Assembly -lol- the last one even coming from a computer scientist because "it will teach the system" yeah because abstraction doesn't exist, and what's wrong with a bit of fun first?

I think if C is a great first language for someone, then they really are destined to be a computer programmer.

BASIC - good old GWBASIC for DOS - was the first language I used in earnest, although I also learned COBOL at the same time. COBOL - talk of taking a lot of lines to do nothing.

[Robert_S]

I rarely code, but think I should. What little experience I do have serves me well when someone who really knows what they're doing tries to explain something to me.

[Cormac]

Surely python would be a good contenter as a replacement for basic to get kids into coding. I'm having a tinker with it at the moment and it is amazingly intuitive after wrestling with C++

I wish the guy who wrote the Learning Perl would write a book for Python.

I wish people who write bad programming books would die.

I agree. Noone should promote bad programming. We should only allow books about good programming.

[Robert_S]

What's a good example of a bad programming book and what makes it bad?

[Cormac]

What's a good example of a bad programming book and what makes it bad?

I don't know. I just know that I am for good things and against bad things, as a general principle.

[Robert_S]

What's a good example of a bad programming book and what makes it bad?

I don't know. I just know that I am for good things and against bad things, as a general principle.

How would you feel about a good book on bad programming?