Cache of guns stolen from LAPD

[FBM]

Out of all these strongly polarized threads about firearm ownership, I wonder if anyone has ever been swayed by another's arguments?

(stolen from another thread)

[Clinton Huxley]

I'm not sure I've ever seen anybody change their mind about anything, ever. Not on a forum, at least.

[FBM]

I'm not sure I've ever seen anybody change their mind about anything, ever. Not on a forum, at least.

Neither have I.

Oh, wait. Yes, I have.

Hold on...no...no, I haven't.

Well, there was this one time...

[Feck]

You make the assumption that everyone has already made up their mind about everything that is talked about . I for one don't have a black and white view on firearm ownership .I know the British laws are far too restrictive and I know the American ones seem far too lax but as to an exact position

[FBM]

You make the assumption that everyone has already made up their mind about everything that is talked about . I for one don't have a black and white view on firearm ownership .I know the British laws are far too restrictive and I know the American ones seem far too lax but as to an exact position

Exactly. After all these pages and threads of argumentation about it, you still haven't been convinced by anyone's arguments.

Are we going to get into an argument over this?

[Feck]

You make the assumption that everyone has already made up their mind about everything that is talked about . I for one don't have a black and white view on firearm ownership .I know the British laws are far too restrictive and I know the American ones seem far too lax but as to an exact position

Exactly. After all these pages and threads of argumentation about it, you still haven't been convinced by anyone's arguments.

Are we going to get into an argument over this?

[MrJonno]

I could understand that a country could get so screwed up that the only way you could survive would be to carry a handgun, however thats not a country I would ever want to live in

[Gawdzilla Sama]

This reminds me of the arguments about Germans. Some were Nazis so all were evil. Come on, folks, do we really still buy that line of thinking?

That must be a great comfort to the thirty or forty million killed by the Germans, most of whom were not Nazis. And the vast majority were not evil.

The children too?

But guns and wars have a habit of enabling nice people to kill other nice people.
Not the bollocks of goodies and baddies that you get in the films.

Gee, I didn't know wars did that. Ya learn somethin' new every day.

[Seth]

I assume you know of a place where the SWAT or equivalent doesn't carry the most effective firearms to do their jobs, then?

Not sure we have a SWAT team or equivalent here in the UK,

I'm quite sure you do.

you have some special police units with single shot sub machineguns (automatic is disabled).

Er, bullshit. If it's not capable of fully-automatic fire, it's not a "sub machinegun" (sic) it's a semi-automatic pistol-caliber carbine or short rifle. And I guarantee you your police tactical and anti-terrorist squads carry real, actual, fully-functional submachine guns.

Some of them come over here to learn how to use them at one of our many excellent tactical training facilities like the American Training (formerly Blackwater) facility near Moyok, North Carolina. I met a couple of them there in 2000 when I went to the facility to report on their new "R U Ready High School" live shoot-house training facility. Nice guys and well-qualified, they were former SAS troopies who signed up for police tactical squads in London after they mustered out.

In the rare case that more is needed you have the military which even with cuts is more than capable of taking on a few armed criminals

Except, of course, the military is not trained for civilian law-enforcement duties and therefore shouldn't be involved short of a declared insurrection or attack from without.

Don't know about the UK, but over here we have the "Posse Comitatus Act" which explicitly forbids our military from participating in civilian law-enforcement actions except on the express orders of the President due, in large part, to the abuses of the British Army regular troops against civilians during the Colonial period and similar abuses by state authorities in the South during Reconstruction where state governors and officials misused federal troops to oppress freed blacks after the Civil War ended.

[Feck]

I think in the UK the police MP5's might actually be set to not go full auto , I'm not sure , but police marksmen do have to account for every shot ,It's not like bodies ever hit the morgue with 30 or 40 shots in them as has happened in NY . In every UK city there are trained Police with firearms in the vehicle on duty to respond to situations ,but mostly UK cops do not carry guns . This is not to take a moral high ground on the issue of cops with guns it is just a fact that most UK cops will never see a gun in the hands of a criminal and it is seen as evidence that they Police with consent not force .

[Svartalf]

They'd still have a 3 round bust setting. Submachineguns just are not interesting if they don't have burst or full auto, since that would just make them oversized, cumbersome and heavy pistols.

[MrJonno]

British police use a modified version of the H&K MP5 that is sold as a sub-machinegun that only fires single shot , anyone who uses more than that in the UK probably isnt ex SAS they are SAS whcih are used from time to time in the UK to help/replace the police

As for the use of the military if they use tanks/armoured personal vehicles and machine guns it doesnt really matter if you call then 'national guard' they are the the military. The difference between a British 'police' anti terrorist unit and the army is basically semantics

Except, of course, the military is not trained for civilian law-enforcement duties and therefore shouldn't be involved short of a declared insurrection or attack from without.

And generally civilian law enforcement isn't routinely trained in the use of deadly force (not here anyway), civilian police can do the negotiating with the bad guys and the army as far are i'm concerned can do the shooting when requested which is basically what happened at the Iranian embassy

[Gallstones]

I'm not sure I've ever seen anybody change their mind about anything, ever. Not on a forum, at least.

I did.
I became more libertarian and less socialist.

[MrJonno]

I'm not sure I've ever seen anybody change their mind about anything, ever. Not on a forum, at least.

I did.
I became more libertarian and less socialist.

Neither are incompatible with each other , only in the US is 'libertarian' associated with right wing politics you are as likely to be left communist-socialist type anywhere else

[Feck]

They'd still have a 3 round bust setting. Submachineguns just are not interesting if they don't have burst or full auto, since that would just make them oversized, cumbersome and heavy pistols.

MMM I'd like to see the group sizes of an MP5 vs a 9mm pistol to be sure of that ?