Ban or Legalise?

[hiyymer]

Clearly there are risks to the public by making things legal which a willful person with intent can use to harm self and others. That's the problem with your original post, your implication was that it was not the intent was the problem it was the machine in and of itself.

Yet it is the attempt to control people's intentions before the fact with criminalization that seems to make for bad law. Criminalization is a weak tool, but it's not the only game in town. Gun "control" is a case in point. Perhaps a similar approach is needed with drugs. In the US there is kind of a legal gray area where it is difficult to control something that is legal. But if there was a legal definition along the lines of the above (things which a willful person with intent can use to harm self or others), and things are reasonably identified as such, then the state can be given some control over those quasi-legal things with education and restrictions on advertising, product formulation, sale to minors, labeling, etc.

[Geoff]

Not necessarily, because companies will seek to profit, drug barons can stay in competition with them on price. (With all the criminal activities still in place, albeit potentially reduced).

To keep the barons out, then complete negation of the market has to be established. This can't be achieved by criminalisation or by discouraging people from taking drugs. It can only be achieved by completely negating any business opportunity.

Private companies will seek to both profit from and maintain their "customers", and this may not be a good thing.

I can see your point, but I still see it as the way forward. Sure, there will still be a "black market" side, just as there is with alcohol and tobacco, but a sensible taxation level (unlike the astronomical duty on those) could minimise that - and it would then come under the jurisdiction of Customs & Excise rather than being a Police matter.

Just the convenience of being able to pop into your local corner shop, rather than hunting out a dealer, would limit black market sales.

[Cormac]

Not necessarily, because companies will seek to profit, drug barons can stay in competition with them on price. (With all the criminal activities still in place, albeit potentially reduced).

To keep the barons out, then complete negation of the market has to be established. This can't be achieved by criminalisation or by discouraging people from taking drugs. It can only be achieved by completely negating any business opportunity.

Private companies will seek to both profit from and maintain their "customers", and this may not be a good thing.

I can see your point, but I still see it as the way forward. Sure, there will still be a "black market" side, just as there is with alcohol and tobacco, but a sensible taxation level (unlike the astronomical duty on those) could minimise that - and it would then come under the jurisdiction of Customs & Excise rather than being a Police matter.

Just the convenience of being able to pop into your local corner shop, rather than hunting out a dealer, would limit black market sales.

See, the problem is that the government will get to like the tax, and just like with cigarettes and alcohol, the government will add more and more tax when the fiscal pressure comes on.

Once taxes are created, governments find it impossible to resist temptation.

And, speaking as a conservative, (member of a now defunct party in Ireland, nonsensically considered to be "right wing"), private companies are not the panacaea for fixing social problems that many conservatives think.

[Ian]

FYI:

Support for legalizing pot hits all-time high

50 percent of Americans favor the legalization of marijuana, up from 46 percent last year, according to a new Gallup poll.

It was the first time in the survey that the number of people favoring legalization was higher than those opposed.

The support for legalized marijuana use has continued to climb since Gallup first began asking questions about it in 1969. Then, only 12 percent of Americans supported legalization, with 84 percent opposed.

Throughout the late 1970s into the 1990s support for legalization remained in the mid 20-percent range, with it passing 30 percent in 2000 and 40 percent in 2009.

The latest poll shows that support for legalized pot is highest in the West (55 percent), among liberals (69 percent), younger Americans (62 percent), and men (55 percent).

Dr. Christopher Glenn Fichtner, author of "Cannibanomics,'" appeared Monday on The Dylan Ratigan show, where he spoke about the potential benefits of legalizing marijuana. He endorsed the California Medical Association’s decision last week to call for legalization of the drug, but with regulations similar to alcohol and tobacco.

"There are numerous products on the market that have risk," Fichtner said, citing alcohol as one example.

"It’s very hard to argue on a medical basis that herbal cannabis or marijuana is more dangerous than alcohol," he said. "The idea is that regulation offers the opportunity to improve the safety and reliability of access to specific products."

He also blames marijuana prohibition for "playing a major role in the initial criminalization, the initiation into the criminal justice system for a very large number of ordinary American citizens."

The Gallup survey was based on telephone interviews conducted Oct. 6-9, 2011, with a random sample of 1,005 adults.

Marijuana is the most commonly abused illegal drug in the United States, according to the National Institute on Drug Abuse. A 2009 federal survey on drug use found that 16.7 million Americans aged 12 or older had used marijuana at least once in the month prior to being surveyed, an increase over the rates reported in all years between 2002 and 2008.

Pot is legal for people with doctors’ recommendations in 16 states, though it remains illegal under federal law. Last week, the federal government vowed to crack down on dispensaries selling marijuana in California, where thousands of outlets have sprung up.

A Gallup survey last year showed that 70 percent of Americans favored making it legal for doctors to prescribe marijuana in order to reduce pain and suffering.

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http://www.gallup.com/poll/150149/Recor ... juana.aspx
http://fieldnotes.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2 ... -time-high

Maybe in a few years I can find out what it feels like to get high.

[Audley Strange]

The legislation of cannabis only benefits the customer, no one else. It does not benefit the cartels profits, the banks profits, the police's wages, the private prison systems shareholders, the jobs for nothing anti-drugs charity mobs, the alcohol industry. 80% of people could want it legalised, but it won't be. Sometimes it's only the black market that keeps the economy afloat.