Unicef criticises Britain for jailing children over riots

[Robert_S]

1 Find connection between theism and X
2 Deny that there may other reasons for X
3 Accuse all those in favor of X of having theistic tendancies
4 ???
5 PROFIT!!!

[Exi5tentialist]

1 Find connection between theism and X
2 Deny that there may other reasons for X
3 Accuse all those in favor of X of having theistic tendancies
4 ???
5 PROFIT!!!

What is so wrong with my view? I've said we live in a theistically-based society. Pretty much everything we do is strongly influenced by theism - our judicial system, our morals, our relationships. Theism is in everything, even atheists. Just because somebody is labelled an atheist doesn't immediately free them up from all theistic indoctrination.

I know it's uncomfortable, but that's the way I see it and I do not think it is an unreasonable position to hold. I'm certainly not profiting by it, quite the opposite I assure you.

[Robert_S]

1 Find connection between theism and X
2 Deny that there may other reasons for X
3 Accuse all those in favor of X of having theistic tendancies
4 ???
5 PROFIT!!!

What is so wrong with my view? I've said we live in a theistically-based society. Pretty much everything we do is strongly influenced by theism - our judicial system, our morals, our relationships. Theism is in everything, even atheists. Just because somebody is labelled an atheist doesn't immediately free them up from all theistic indoctrination.

I know it's uncomfortable, but that's the way I see it and I do not think it is an unreasonable position to hold. I'm certainly not profiting by it, quite the opposite I assure you.

1 ***
2 ***
3 ***
4 ???
5 PROFIT!!!

Is a meme format. It was not intended to imply you were making money off it.


But religion has coexisted with humans long enough that almost everything is also in it. So, just because something has a religious aspect to it, doesn't mean it comes from religion.

I'll grant you that they only go so far and shouldn't be the entirety of our thinking regarding having an well ordered, safe, and "good" society, but in my experience rewards and punishments have uses for setting hard boundaries.

But one thing that I see as highly theistic is the notion that evolution is guided toward higher level of consciousness or anything in particular.

Saying "You have not evolved beyond X" seems to imply that evolution is, in fact, guided don't you think?

[Tyrannical]

I bet 48 hours in a stockade will do more for rehabilitation than six months psych evaluation. Do it at their local schools so all of their classmates can see what happens to naughty people. Maybe add a few lashes to the extra naughty ones.

[mistermack]

What is so wrong with my view? I've said we live in a theistically-based society. Pretty much everything we do is strongly influenced by theism - our judicial system, our morals, our relationships. Theism is in everything, even atheists. Just because somebody is labelled an atheist doesn't immediately free them up from all theistic indoctrination.

I know it's uncomfortable, but that's the way I see it and I do not think it is an unreasonable position to hold. I'm certainly not profiting by it, quite the opposite I assure you.

What's wrong is that you are making a false and rather naive leap.

Theistic societies behaved like this. Therefore, this behaviour is because of theism.

You haven't established why this is so at all. And as has been pointed out, virtually every society has been theistic in some way. So it's ridiculous just to CLAIM a causal link without some pretty definite evidence.

You might just as well say that theistic societies developed money. So we are being a bit theistic, if we use money. That's the sort of logic you are offering.
You can surely do better than that?

If you want to be taken seriously, make your argument for the causal connection between punishment and religion. Don't just rely on them co-existing.

[Tyrannical]

What is so wrong with my view? I've said we live in a theistically-based society. Pretty much everything we do is strongly influenced by theism - our judicial system, our morals, our relationships. Theism is in everything, even atheists. Just because somebody is labelled an atheist doesn't immediately free them up from all theistic indoctrination.

I know it's uncomfortable, but that's the way I see it and I do not think it is an unreasonable position to hold. I'm certainly not profiting by it, quite the opposite I assure you.

Mmmh, we need a nice non-theistic approach to justice. Might I suggest Dracos the Lawgiver?
No need to bother with rehabilitation when you either execute, fine, or sentence into slavery all the law breakers. When laws and punishment are spelled out plainly people know what is expected of them.

When looters are shot on sight, and their family members forced to either pay for the damages or succumb to slavery we would have a nice law abiding society devoid of silly religion.

[surreptitious57]

Punishment - the inflicting of pain by the state - is a theistic legacy. You sound like a 19th century cleric. The only purpose of the judicial system should be risk assessment and rehabilitation

Risk assessment should be carried out for sentencing. It's only fucking guesswork anyway.
Rehab is bollocks. It doesn't do any good and is a complete waste of money. If you stop all rehab, you can spend the money saved on keeping them inside for longer

Well not quite. The recidivism rate here is seventy per
cent and that is extremely worrying. Nevertheless there is
thirty oer cent who never see the inside of a jail again. So some
slver lining in the cloud. But I agree with you on reforming one self
It is something you have to want to do not what some one makes you
do. I would however have professional help available for any who genuinely
wanted it. But one must remain pragmatic about this. Ever since the dawn of
human civilisation there has been crime and will continue to be till we become extinct
That does not mean however that the state does nothing and just accepts the inevitability
of it. Rather does everything in its power to reduce crime and rehabilitate criminals who wish to be

[mistermack]

I would however have professional help available for any who genuinely
wanted it.

I would, if it was genuine charities providing it. But I wouldn't spend a single penny of taxpayers money on it.

I think these so-called professionals are a bit like alternative medical practitioners.
They take all the credit when someone goes straight, and none of the blame when they don't.

Thirty percent sounds like a realistic figure for people who would decide that prison was not for them, and not risk it again. I wouldn't put any of that figure down to professional help.

[Tyrannical]

If we made it a regular habit to execute most violent / anarchistic criminals society would not suffer from it. Upon a first offense is as good a reason as any given the recidivism rate.

[Tyrannical]

The concept of jails are theistic in nature, as it is a place you are supposed to contemplate your sins.
Jails are totally unnecessary as punishment should be limited to fines, flogging, or execution.

[Rum]

Jesus Christ.

[Tyrannical]

Jesus Christ.

Yes, contemplating how sad you made Jesus Christ is supposed to be worse than execution, hence the theistic introduction of jails and rehabilitation.

[Rum]

Quite right - kill the fuckers instead.

After we kill all the right wingers of course.

[tattuchu]

Bring back work houses for the little blighters! A work'us lad is a lad with character

[Tyrannical]

Quite right - kill the fuckers instead.

Well, give me a non-theistic reason why we shouldn't Put on your rational atheist hat if you have to